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20 The humanisT | mrc - aprl 2007 www.rct.org

Beyond the Walls

of the Secular Cathedral

Harvard

humanism:

PHOTO BY TOm


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21mrc - aprl 2007 | The humanisTwww.tt.org

TeHumanist:How long have you been humanist chap-

lain o Harvard?

Epstein: I took over the position in 2005. Most people

have no idea Harvard has an endowed, permanent human-

ist chaplaincymuch less that weve been around or over

thirty years now.

Te Humanist: Its unusual or a humanist leader to work

in an ocial position such as a chaplain at a university. Andyou work at not just any university, but at Harvard. How do

see you the signicance o your job?

Epstein: In his landmark book, Te Good Society, sociol-

ogist Robert Bellah commented that the university is the

secular cathedral. In the secular world, Bellah says, univer-

sities come closer than any other institution to having the

prestige, the inuence, and the power to inspire that cathe-

drals have in the religious world. It ollows, or better or or

worse, that Harvard has been seen as the ultimate secular

cathedral. For example, the American Humanist Associa-

tions most prestigious award has been its Humanist o the

Year Award. O the y-plus individuals who have received

that award since 1953, ten o the recipients have taught at

Harvard. Tats an astounding ratio.

Te Humanist: Its true that many prominent humanists

have taught at Harvard. But your position as humanist

chaplain isnt exactly a teaching position, is it? How is thehumanist chaplain diferent than a proessor?

Epstein: Tats right, the humanist chaplaincy at Harvard,

rather than being a standard academic chair or institute, is

dedicated to what we call building, educating, and nurtur-

ing a diverse community o humanists, agnostics, atheists,

and the non-religious at Harvard and beyond.

o give it some context, Harvard was ounded in 1636 by

hard-line Puritan Calvinist Christians. Eventually though,

The Humanist Interview with Greg Epstein,

Humanist Chaplain of Harvard

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by David Niose

PHOTO BY J.B. KnudsOn


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Harvard shied to become a center or liberalizing Chris-

tianity and Unitarianism, and in the modern period it has

been repeatedly accused o godlessness, though in act it

has slowly and tully adopted the ideology o religious

pluralism.

TeHumanist: How does this history relate to the human-

ist chaplaincy?

Epstein: Well, once univer-

sities began to include more

than one religious point o

view, it became clear that

they needed clergy to serve

the diferent communities. In

the 1970s, when om Ferrick

arrived at Harvard to ound

the humanist chaplaincy, Har-

vard had Protestant, Cath-

olic, and Jewish chaplains.

om raised the question o

whether humanism could be

considered enough o a main-

stream and important philosophical tradition to be among

those represented, especially given that Harvard never o-

cially renounced its standing as a religious university, and

thereore the schools chaplaincies represent, at least in the-

ory, its ethical oundation. om was accepted and was even

given an oce in Memorial Church, the huge church that

sits in the very heart o Harvard Yard and or many symbol-izes the university as a whole.

Te ultimate signicance o the humanist chaplaincy is

that a respectable secular cathedral or today must not

only give lip service to pluralism but should actually make

space or many communities and points o view. In act, one

o oms important accomplishments was helping to bring

Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, and even evangelical chaplain-

cies to campus. Humanism then is one among many given

ull inclusion.

Te Humanist: Speaking o inclusion, I understand youllsoon be hosting one o the biggest events in the chaplain-

cys history and that it will eature a multicultural lineup o

speakers.

Epstein: Yes, were very excited about it. In April Salman

Rushdie, Amartya Sen, E. O. Wilson, the olk singer Dar

Williams, and too many others to list will join us or a

three-day event to commemorate the thirtieth anniversary

o the humanist chaplaincy at Harvard. Were investing a

lot o time and energy into this because we eel the time

has come or us to help humanism make an impact on the

national and international level.

TeHumanist: As a humanist chaplain, will you be engag-

ing in the culture wars, perhaps speaking out against cre-

ationism, or even against religion in general, the way oth-

ers such as Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennett have been

lately?

Epstein: Ah, yes, Dawkins and Dennett, plus the author

Sam Harrisa ormer proessor o mine at Harvard Divin-

ity School reers to them semi-seriously as the unholy

trinity. I have great respect or all three, and I agree with

Dawkins and Dennett on their naturalistic, nontheistic view

o the universe. But I take an extremely diferent approach

than they do to representing humanism.

TeHumanist:How so?

Epstein: First o all, it can no longer be enough to hope

that Harvard will in and o itsel act as a secular cathedral,

just as its not enough to rely on what Gary Wol dubbed

Te New Atheism in his November 2006 Wiredmagazine

cover story. Te cover text o that issue read: No Heaven.

No Hell. Just Science. Well, its true and important that

humanists dont adhere to the idea o a heaven or a hell, and

we do value science as the best tool humans have or under-

standing the world around us, but Just Science? o me

that language raises the concern, oen quite valid, that thenew atheism is too cut of rom emotion, rom intuition, and

rom a spirit o generosity toward those who see the world

diferently. In short, it represents the head o humanism,

an over-intellectualized, disembodied approach. o be rel-

evant in the twenty-rst century we must also emphasize

the heart o humanism.

Te Humanist: It sounds like youre on to something

there.

Epstein: I do see a movement taking shape that is positiverather than negative, with the potential to reach millions o

young people in the coming generation or two. In response

to the Wiredarticle we should call this approach Te New

Humanism.

Tis new humanism is noteworthy in three ways: its mul-

ticultural, its inclusive, and its inspiring. O course none

o these notions are completely new, but one could argue

that they havent been emphasized enough by the organized

humanist community.

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TeHumanist: Lets address the rst o the three points you

just made. Humanism is oen seen as growing out o West-

ern culture, arising out o the European philosophical tra-

dition, but you like to reer to humanism as being multicul-

tural. What do you mean by that?

Epstein: Humanism has its roots in every culture rom

around the world. A ew years ago, Salman Rushdie and I

discussed the idea that Muslim culture is rich with human-

istic heritage that can be traced back to the democratiz-

ing tendencies o Cyrus and ancient Persia, and to the

great medieval philosophers Ibn Sinna and Ibn Rushid,

who ironically helped preserve Aristotelian philosophy or

the West. And there are millions o atheists and agnostics

in the Muslim world today. We must embrace them and

understand that they dont visualize humanism as merely a

straight path rom ancient Greece to the Enlightenment to

Richard Dawkins the way some do in the United States.

For similar reasons, Ive made a point o reaching out to

the aorementioned Amartya Sen, and also to u Weiming,

two great Harvard proessors. Sen is a Nobel Prize-winning

economist and a world-class philosopher on issues such as

rationality and economic development, but he is also deeply

rooted in Indian culture, politics, and philosophy. His most

recent writing begins to stake out a kind o authentically

Indian humanism. He points out, or example, that ancient

Sanskrit has more atheist and agnostic literature than any

other classical language in history. u is a great advocate or

Conucian humanism, and we need to hear him because

we dont draw nearly enough rom the thousands o yearso humanistic literature, art, music, and philosophy o East

Asia. Te beauty o all this isnt just that were tapping into

more than hal the worlds population here. Its that once we

begin to deeply explore humanisms diverse roots, we can

nally begin to use it as the peace-making tool it should

long ago have become. I humanists rom around the world

are empowered to meet eye to eye in mutual respect, they

might then be more able to assist in building peace between

their diferent nations.

Te Humanist: You mentioned earlier that humanismshould be multicultural but also inclusive, presumably o

nonhumanists. How can we do so while maintaining the

integrity o our own outlook?

Epstein: I people take only one thing rom my work,

let it be the idea that an authentic, passionate, commit-

ted humanistand yes, atheistmust accept the dignity

o other belies. Some atheists want to erase religion, the

way some religious undamentalists want to erase human-

ism. My humanism is an embracing philosophy. It says, lets

understand ourselves enough to know why we disagree,

then lets trust ourselves enough to care about each other

and work together toward common goals.

Te great contemporary hero o this approach is E.O.

Wilson, the Harvard scientist and our humanist chap-

laincy board member, who has worked so hard to bring

humanist scientists and evangelical Christians together to

address global warming. Ambassador John Loeb Jr. will

also be talking in April about how the ouro Synagogue, to

which George Washington wrote his amous letter in 1790

promising all people not mere toleration but ull inclusion

in American society, is a classically humanistic symbol o

inclusiveness. Even Richard Dawkins gets the value o the

approach, i you catch him of guard. He was blogging a

ew months ago about how he hadnt known what to say

to a U.S. college student who conded in him that he was

considering suicide. Dawkins wrote that i this had hap-

pened at Harvard he would have reerred the student to the

humanist chaplain. But, ironically, he added that at Oxord

he would have recommended the Anglican chaplains, many

o whom, he said, are very nice people.

TeHumanist: Some might say that the inclusive, noncon-rontational approach isnt the best way to get noticed in

todays United States. How would you respond?

Epstein: My humanism is not a proselytizing humanism. I

dont go out trying to convince people to abandon belie in

God, hoping that will somehow cure all ills. However, my

humanism is not a silent humanism either. Te diference

is the approach: ours should be to educate anyoneevery-

oneabout what humanists do believe in. Why we see God

as a human creation, not vice versa. Why we eel this lie,

this world, is the only one we have. And especially howsuch belies help us to live good, meaningul, productive,

and joyous lives. Tis isnt an approach designed to make

humanists the dominant majority, but it certainly will make

us a strong and respected minority.

You know, nothing breeds more raw passion than

extremism. But many o us who would be embarrassed to

support either religious or anti-religious undamentalism

still want to be part o a cause, a community, or even an

experience larger than just ourselves. We need inspiration,

Lctr d dbt r

portt, bt w t lo sing

d w t build. i tt

tporclly d ltrlly.


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and even though humanism as a philosophy is so inspir-

ing once you really come to understand it, it has ailed to

connect with millions o people because so many human-

ist leaders have allowed themselves to believe that their role

consists primarily o talking or writing about why this or

that theological argument is wrong.

Te Humanist: Beyond multiculturalism and inclusive-

ness, what else is new and inspiring about the new human-

ism concept?

Epstein: Lectures and debates are important, but we must

also sing and we must build. I mean that metaphorically

and literally. Metaphorically, when humanists gather, there

ought to be emphasis on beauty and not just act. Te expe-

rience o humanism should sing, whether were silently

meditating or listening to each others worries, concerns,

and expressions o joy. You know, my rst job out o col-

lege was as a singer in a rock band. Now theres a religion

or you. All the secular kids whom we whine arent joining

the American Humanist Association? Tey arent studying

Sharia law or the Book o Revelations. Teyre at concerts

rock, olk, hip-hop. Good music speaks to us. It lis us up.

Humanists need to nd a way to sing together literally as

well. Im looking orward to doing so with the brilliant Dar

Williams and a number o other musicians at Harvard in

April.

And by building, I mean we need to build each other

upmaybe by visiting each other in the hospital as a

humanist community, or taking hikes and walks together

while cleaning up parks and communities, or working as

a group to protect the environment. We also need to build

actual structures. How many U.S. humanist groups and

communities have their own buildings? Can you imagine

a U.S. Supreme Court session in some rented elementary

school classroom, with justices sitting around on those lit-

tle orange plastic chairs? Our groups never really have a

chance to build up the political, charitable, educational, or

social work we do because we dont have our own spaces. At

Harvard, whether it takes one year or ten, we plan to change

that, so that the next time our chaplaincy holds an impor-

tant anniversary celebration it will take place in a beautiul

new humanist building.

Te Humanist: New buildings, new voices, new

humanism.

Epstein:You got it! h

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