town of collingwood judicial inquirymail.tscript.com/trans/toci/sept_24_19/toci-sept-24-19.pdf ·...

TOWN OF COLLINGWOOD

JUDICIAL INQUIRY

Before:

Associate Chief Justice Frank Marrocco

Held at:

Collingwood Town Hall

Council Chambers

97 Hurontario Street

Collingwood, Ontario

September 24th, 2019

Transcript Date Sept 24, 2019

DIGI-TRAN INC. 403-276-7611Serving Clients Across Canada

2

1 APPEARANCES

2

3 Kate McGrann ) Inquiry Counsel

4 John Mather ) Associate Inquiry

5 ) Counsel

6

7 (No Counsel) ) For Paul Bonwick

8

9 George Marron ) For Sandra Cooper

10

11 Frederick Chenoweth ) For Edwin Houghton

12

13 William McDowell (np) ) For Town of Collingwood

14 Ryan Breedon )

15 Andrea Wheeler )

16

17 Bill Trudell ) For BLT Construction

18 Eric Neubauer )

19

20

21

22

23

24

25



3

1 TABLE OF CONTENTS

2 PAGE NO.

3 List of Exhibits 4

4

5 MARTA PROCTOR, Previously Sworn

6 Continued Cross-examination

7 by Mr. Frederick Chenoweth 6

8 Cross-examination by Mr. George Marron 107

9 Cross-examination by Mr. Paul Bonwick 109

10 Re-Direct Examination by Ms. Kate McGrann 157

11

12 DAVE MCNALTY, Sworn

13 Examination-in-Chief by Mr. John Mather 159

14

15

16

17

18

19 Certificate of Transcript 254

20

21

22

23

24

25



4

1 List of Exhibits

2 Exhibit No. Description Page No.

3 1581 TOC0172486

4 1582 TOC0183198

5 1583 CJI0011234

6 1584 TOC0204989

7 1585 TOC0207166

8 1586 TOC0215881

9 1587 TOCO226261.0001.0001

10 1588 CJI0011247

11 1589 CJI0011245

12 1590 CJI0011243

13 1591 CJI0011242

14 1592 CJI0011244

15 1593 TOCO182487

16 1594 TOC0034069

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25



5

1 --- Upon commencing at 9:15 a.m.

2

3 MARTA PROCTOR, Previously Sworn

4

5 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: I -- I

6 can understand why you all might need to confer, and

7 that's fine. In the future, though, I think what I'll

8 do is I'll come in at nine o'clock, because we were

9 ready to go at 9:00, and then I'll stand down to give

10 you an opportunity to confer with each other.

11 I -- I don't like to leave the

12 impression that we somehow schedule the things to

13 start at 9:00 and weren't ready to proceed. Carry on.

14 I guess, Mr. Chenoweth, you were cross-examining.

15

16 (BRIEF PAUSE)

17

18 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Not on, and

19 it's a useful thing to have on. I agree with you.

20 I was just complemented on my use of

21 the mic yesterday, so I -- I -- it must have gone to

22 my head.

23 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Well,

24 two (2) days in a row is always, you know, a lot.

25 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We'll --



6

1 we'll try and pick it up.

2

3 CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. FREDERICK

4 CHENOWETH:

5 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We --

6 yesterday, Ms. Proctor, we were talking about

7 paragraph 193. And I don't think we need to turn it

8 up at this point, but we were talking about a

9 newspaper article in which the Mayor had commented

10 that she thought that the $35 million price tag for

11 the multi-use facility was extensive, and maybe too

12 much. And she thought some other ideas would come up.

13 And we'll talk about the development of other ideas in

14 the Council.

15 And could we turn for moment to -- to

16 an exchange that appears to have arisen as a result of

17 that article, which is paragraph 194 of the Foundation

18 Document.

19

20 (BRIEF PAUSE)

21

22 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And I see

23 that on July 12th, sometime after the article, Brian

24 Saunders (sic) emails Marta Proctor, and Claire

25 Tucker-Reid, writing that he'd read the Mayor's



7

1 comments in the news article on Central Park, and he

2 believes that they would not be able to convince

3 Council to change direction.

4 He goes on to say:

5 "Best outcome is to keep the shovels

6 out of the ground until the next

7 election."

8 And Ms. Tucker-Reid writes back:

9 "I still think that we should use

10 the PT -- the PPT."

11 What does she mean by the PPT?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm sorry, I --

13 I'm not sure what she meant by that.

14 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I'm -- I'm

15 not either, but in any event:

16 "We should use the PPT but add our

17 own comments. We also need to be

18 ready to -- ready for the media

19 afterwards. The Enterprise Bulletin

20 has a poll question this week about

21 Central Park. We need to stack the

22 results in our camp's favour."

23 And I take it you would have received

24 the reply of Claire Tucker-Reid to the comments of

25 Brian Saunders (sic).



8


2 just before you go on, what you are reading there,

3 those were Ms. Tucker-Reid's comments, right?

4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: That's

5 correct.

6 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Right.

7 Not -- not Mr. Saunderson's --

8 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: No.

9 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: --

10 comments?

11 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I did

12 indicate Ms. Tucker-Reid replied.

13 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Just for the

14 benefit -- could you bring up the email? Is that

15 possible? I'm trying to follow who's speaking as

16 well.


18 I -- I don't want to -- I don't want to interrupt Mr.

19 Chenoweth's line of cross-examination any more than I

20 already have, but I'm quite happy to bring it up when

21 you're questioning, Mr. Bonwick, if you want to go

22 over it.

23 Sorry, Mr. Chenoweth, for the

24 interruption.

25 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Yeah. Thank



9

1 you very much.

2

3 CONTINUED BY MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH:

4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I'm -- there

5 seems to be kind of a -- a camp mentality developing

6 here.

7 Clearly the steering committee people

8 are anxious to -- to be successful with their proposal

9 with respect to the MURF, and they seem to be talking

10 about ways in which they can -- they can improve the

11 prospects of their agenda being successful. There

12 appears to be a bit of a campaign developing in that

13 respect, from what I read out of this email.

14 Is that fair?

15 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I think it's fair

16 to interpret that.

17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Thank you.

18 Appreciate that.

19 And they seem to be talking about

20 things like the best outcome is to keep the shovels

21 out of the ground until the next election.

22 I -- I take it what Brian Saunderson

23 seems to be talking about there is, let's try and hold

24 this thing up until -- until we can get the next

25 election done and hopefully we can win, and there's a



10

1 -- an increased prospect that the multi-use proposal

2 can -- can -- can prevail.

3 Is that what appears to be his

4 approach?

5 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Other than this

6 email, that's the only time I heard that, so -- but

7 that could be interpreted that way.


9 And Tucker-Reid seems to be talking about -- about

10 stuffing a poll question that's in the Enterprise

11 Bulletin in order to get some -- some good press from

12 the Enterprise Bulletin on that issue.

13 Is that fair?

14 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It's fair to

15 interpret that.

16 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: All right.

17 I -- I was wondering why Marta Proctor, one of the

18 staff at the Town, would be party to -- to this kind

19 of discussion.

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I don't believe I

21 was party to the discussion. I was copied on the

22 emails.

23 As indicated yesterday, I was the staff

24 liaison with the Central Park Steering Committee and

25 these are the two (2) Co-Chairs speaking, and



11

1 typically they did copy me on most of their

2 communication and correspondence.


4 Well, did they regard you as an ally in -- in -- in

5 this process of developing and attempting to be

6 successful with their camp's view of the world?

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't speak to

8 how they regarded me. I can speak to how I regarded

9 myself.

10 Would you like to hear that answer?

11 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Sure.

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I was true to a

13 process, and whether that was the process of the

14 Central Park Steering Committee while it was under the

15 direction of Council for me to maintain that or

16 facilitate that committee.

17 Later, when there were other options

18 being explored based on Council's input, I was true to

19 exploring those options, so I did not have a -- I'm

20 sorry, I'm not sure which word you used, campaign or

21 camp. I was true to a process, regardless what that

22 process was.

23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Would you --

24 would you have been offended by -- by being included

25 in the discussion that's taking place in these emails?



12

1 I'm not suggesting there was other discussions, but

2 the discussions in this email, would you -- would you

3 been offended by that?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I would not use

5 the word "offended," but I was concerned, and as I

6 previously said, it was a difficult time and I was

7 trying to maneuver my way and establish processing

8 systems to best reflect what I believe is good

9 governance and good administration.

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: You didn't

11 feel obliged to respond to this email from Brian

12 Saunders and say why are you copying me on this, or --

13 or, you know, I -- I -- I really don't want to be

14 involved in -- in this kind of -- really what's little

15 more than politicking?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: To be honest, I

17 didn't reply to any email that I was copied on that I

18 was concerned about, but I did discuss my concerns

19 internally and how we manage them in a proactive and

20 positive way.

21 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Ms. Proctor,

22 you were involved in the June 11th strategic planning

23 session that took place at City Hall on that

24 particular date, correct?

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Correct.



13

1 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And that was

2 a gathering that Council had on that occasion?


4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And you

5 developed a set of slides with respect to that

6 meeting, and they're at paragraph 140. Could we bring

7 them up just for the moment, if we could, please?

8

9 (BRIEF PAUSE)

10

11 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And let's go

12 to the paragraph itself, if we could. Thank you.

13

14 (BRIEF PAUSE)

15

16 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And you had

17 circulated a revised set of slide presentations for

18 the strategic planning session to -- to the EMC and to

19 others.

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That's correct.

21 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So you had a

22 significant role in the -- and -- and you spoke at

23 that -- at that meeting as well as I recall.


25 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I think Mr.



14

1 Houghton gave a bit of a presentation as to the status

2 of matters to that date and -- and you outlined the

3 goals of the session, et cetera, from your slide

4 presentation.

5 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: At this point I

6 can't remember which slides I spoke to and which Mr.

7 Houghton, but I know it was a collaborative

8 presentation and we worked together with the Executive

9 Management Committee as well as other staff, such as

10 Dave McNalty, Robert Voigt, and Mandy, helped pull it

11 all together.

12 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Fair to say

13 you had a significant role in planning for and

14 executing the June 11th strategic planning session

15 that occurred a that time?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That is correct.


18 And again we spoke yesterday about the -- I'm going to

19 use the word groundswell, maybe there's better words,

20 but we spoke about the fact that there'd been some

21 comment in May from -- from Kevin Lloyd, Councillor

22 Kevin Lloyd, there'd -- at this -- at this point.

23 There had been possibly some comments from -- from

24 Councillor Lloyd, Deputy Mayor Lloyd, and there'd been

25 some comments from the Mayor.



15

1 Do I take it that the -- the -- really

2 the -- the purpose of the June 11th strateg --

3 strategic planning meeting was an opportunity to

4 respond to the groundswell of -- I -- I don't know

5 whether I'd call it concern at this point, but the

6 ground swell of -- of -- well, I will use the word

7 "concern", of concern with respect to the -- to the

8 multi -- the MURF facility at this point?


10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: All right,

11 thank you.

12 So it really was an opportunity to --

13 to give councillors a bit of a voice to discuss their

14 response to the report of the Steering Committee to

15 that juncture, because it had been -- there had been

16 comments and thoughts up to that point and you wanted

17 to give the Council and the members of Council an

18 opportunity to make public comment with respect to

19 same?



22 And in fact, as I understand it, each

23 member was given five minutes to make their comments

24 as to really their response to the multi-use facility

25 plan?



16

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I cannot recall

2 that the conversation was specific to a response to

3 the multi-purpose plan of the Steering Committee, but

4 it was -- I believe it was definitely to talk about

5 options that they prefer. That was one of them, but

6 clearly there were others named in the presentation.

7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So it was an

8 opportunity to talk about options?


10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: That seems

11 to be the buzzword that develops in the parlance at

12 that point.


14 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Very good.

15 Thank you.

16 And we have the minutes from that

17 meeting that were taken and we'll go to those in a

18 second. But I note a further document, which is

19 TOC0172486. Could we bring that document up, please?

20 I'm just trying to get a sense of the

21 mood of the councillors at this point, Ms. Proctor,

22 because I think it's informative.

23 So that what we seem to have in front

24 of us are June 11th, 2012 notes from the Council

25 Strategic Planning Session for the Central Park



17

1 Project.

2 As I understand it, these may have been

3 the notes that were taken from a -- a white board that

4 was being written on during the course of -- of that

5 June 11th session. Is that correct?

6 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't recall how

7 the notes were taken, but I do know notes were taken.


9 And this appears to be some record of

10 the notes that were taken at that time?

11 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That seems

12 correct.


14 I'm looking at the comments of

15 Councillor Lloyd, who I take to be Kevin Lloyd, not

16 Rick Lloyd. Is that correct?



19 And he seems to make the comment

20 "situation vision, location, priority, ice and water",

21 he's stating a priority there?

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm sorry. There,

23 thank you. Situation.

24 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Again, we're

25 talking about the comment summary of Councillor Lloyd



18

1 or what I take to be Kevin Lloyd. And he says in the

2 third line down, "priority, ice and water".

3 Would it appear to be the case that he

4 was expressing the view that he felt ice and water

5 being some more ice and -- and a proper pool facility

6 in the Town were a priority for the Town?

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It appears that he

8 prioritized ice and water.


10 And under his -- his stage one (1)

11 comment, he's got "objective", ice and water again

12 expressing their priority. And "strategy,

13 refurbishing Eddie Bush and covering the outdoor

14 rink".

15 Those are the kinds of priorities that

16 Kevin Lloyd appeared to be expressing at the June 11th

17 meeting?



20 We go down to Councillor West and I'm

21 noting in the fourth line of his comments, he says

22 "stay focussed on ice and water".

23 Does that appear to be the thinking of

24 Councillor West on or about June 11th?




19


2 And then there's the Deputy Mayor, who

3 we've heard a fair amount about through the course of

4 phase 2. His comment is "remember the Town has other

5 big projects, fire hall, Hume Street, water treatment

6 facilities, deports the project but it should be

7 phased".

8 Does he appear to be saying that we've

9 got a lot of other priorities in the Town and we

10 should bite off this multi-use facility in smaller

11 bites and phase it in?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It clearly says he

13 -- it should be phased.

14 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Okay. And

15 he makes a comment on market sounding, it seems.

16 "Market sounding leads to more reports, another

17 study", it's pretty clear that he's not interested in

18 another study, that he's interested in action. Is

19 that fair?

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That's fair.


22 And he wants to keep the existing

23 arena, that's Eddie Bush, he wants to make that part

24 of the ongoing facilities available through the Town?

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It looks that way.



20


2 Going down to Councillor Edwards, he

3 seems to say, and I'm looking at his -- his third last

4 line, "need to move forward, get on with it, we need

5 ice time".

6 He's expressing a -- a view I think

7 which is consistent with other councillors we're

8 hearing with. We need to move forward and get on with

9 it, there's an urgency about ice time?

10 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That's correct,

11 that's what he's saying, correct.


13 thank you.

14 He -- he says "one project too big", a

15 little difficult to figure out exactly what he's

16 saying with those words. But he's -- he may be saying

17 that the -- the taking the full multi-use facility

18 project as one project is too big.

19 Would that appear to be a fair

20 assertion of what he's saying in his comments on June

21 11th?

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I would agree.


24 And then we've got Councillor

25 Cunningham,



21

1 "35 million is a concern, we should

2 put a roof on the outdoor rink and

3 maintain the existing arena."

4 He seems to be expressing concern about

5 the MURF project being too much money and he has some

6 smaller plans for the community. Fair?

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, that's a --

8 that would be fair.


10 And we'll get through this as quickly as we can.

11 Councillor Chadwick makes a comment on

12 the -- on this matter and he seems to be saying in the

13 top line "agree with staged idea, give us the fastest

14 start".

15 So he seems to be expressing a concern

16 that we should -- we should stage the multi-use

17 project and we should get on with -- with a fast start

18 of certain parts of the project, correct?



21 He says 35 is too much, he's concerned

22 about the impact on the taxpayers, "phase it with the

23 arena first."

24 So he seems to be looking for an arena

25 first, as a first stage, and he's telling us that the



22

1 full 35 million is too much?


3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And

4 Councillor Gardhouse does not agree, and I'm looking

5 at the second last line of Councillor Gardhouse's

6 comments.

7 "Does not agree with spending money

8 to do all the work at the present

9 time, like dollars for relocating

10 ball diamonds."

11 I'm assuming the word "diamonds" comes

12 after that. So he appears not to agree with spending

13 $35 million dollars to do all the work at this time.

14 Is that fair?



17 seeing a bit of a developing consensus coming out of

18 the meeting of June 11th, which was for the purpose of

19 giving councillors an opportunity to express their

20 views with respect to how they might proceed on the

21 recreational project.

22 Would you think it's fair to say that,

23 well really, all of the councillors here are

24 expressing concern about spending $35 million at this

25 time?



23


2 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: They appear

3 to want some -- some quick results?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: The -- I would --

5 there was clear interest in phasing the work, is what

6 I've interpreted.

7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I'm hearing

8 phases like we've got to get on with it, we don't need

9 any more studies, we've got to move forward.

10 Is there a mood in the Council as of

11 June 11th to get on with this project in a timely way?

12 Is that fair?

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: When you read the

14 notes that you did, I could see how that would be

15 interpreted.

16 When I left, I felt that we needed to

17 explore other options and present a more palatable

18 solution that included phasing. That was my

19 interpretation.


21 So you didn't take from it that there

22 was a developing sense of urgency among the

23 councillors to get on with the recreational projects,

24 particularly with respect to ice and water? You

25 didn't take that from this?



24

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I took from the

2 meeting that there were some councillors that really

3 wanted to move forward with a solution for additional

4 ice, and that phasing a project is something they were

5 likely more interested in rather than the full MURF

6 because we did not have the money and there were no

7 viable funding solutions that were sitting waiting for

8 us.

9 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So you

10 didn't get any sense of urgency arising during that

11 meeting of June 11th?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: From Council as a

13 whole, no, I did not. From some councillors, I know

14 they were very vocal about wanting other ice.

15 I did feel that addressing our

16 recreation needs has been a long-outstanding item and

17 they wanted to resolve this issue.


19 And we'll just look for a moment at -- at the minutes

20 at paragraph 143 of the Foundation Document. If we

21 could pull those up, please?

22

23 (BRIEF PAUSE)

24

25 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And again,



25

1 at the bottom of that paragraph I'm noticing that

2 whoever did the minutes, and it must have been an

3 interesting set of minutes to take, because you've got

4 a whole series of comments, but in any event, the

5 person who wrote the minutes indicates "priority are

6 ice pad and aquatic infrastructure".

7 That appears to be one (1) of the

8 conclusions that the minute-taker took out of this

9 piece?



12 And I notice that there's -- if we

13 could move down a little bit, please.

14 And I notice this minute-taker appears

15 to have -- appears to have taken down:

16 "35 million is too much, 35 million

17 is needed to provide needed

18 services."

19 So basically picked up on -- on the

20 concern about these dollars and cents.

21 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: If I could see the

22 whole list, that would be helpful.

23 Okay. To answer your question, that it

24 -- that is stated there.




26

1 And I see the phrase "need to be

2 responsible with finances." I take it another

3 expression of a number of things that are going on

4 with the Town and concerns about spending 35 million

5 bucks at this point?



8 And I notice the second last item, "Cover the outdoor

9 ice surface." There was some -- obviously, some talk

10 about doing that during the course of the meeting?


12 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And were

13 they talking about using fabric buildings at that

14 point. Or I take it they were talking about

15 alternatives to -- to bricks and mortar at that point.

16 Is that correct?

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I don't recall any

18 type of construction being discussed. I know, over

19 time, there were several concepts discussed about

20 covering the outdoor ice surface. I believe it more -

21 - was more of a general discussion about that being an

22 option.


24 You -- there was some more general discussions about

25 that being an option, using fabric roofs?



27

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't say if it

2 was using fabric or not.

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Okay. Thank

4 you. You had made the comment that -- that you were

5 hoping to get clarify out of the June 11th meeting.

6 You were looking for some clarity as a staff person.

7 You were getting mixed sig -- signals here and you

8 wanted to re -- to resolve some clarity.

9 I take it that you said that clarity

10 was not achieved. You told my friend, Inquiry

11 counsel, that clarity was not a re -- not achieved in

12 the June 11th meeting.

13 Was the June 11th meeting designed to

14 get clarity or was it simply designed to give

15 councillors an opportunity to speak their mind with

16 respect to approaches to the recreational problem?

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: To the best of my

18 recollection, thi -- this meeting that we're looking

19 at the notes was to assist in providing clarity by

20 compiling all the information and the discussions that

21 were occurring outside of the counsel table at one (1)

22 place and to assist with providing clarity, as far as

23 I can recall at this time.


25 So, we were trying to take the -- the comments that



28

1 were circulating, get them down on paper and see where

2 that took us?



5 And that appears to be reflected again in paragraph

6 143, again in the minutes. Acting CAO Ed Houghton

7 provided a brief summary and discussion on next steps.

8 "Staff will prepare options based on

9 the discussion for consideration at

10 a future council meeting."

11 So, that -- that was the course of this

12 thing. They were going to try and synthesize what

13 came out of the June 11th meeting and put it into some

14 sort of an options plan or direction that could be

15 discussed at -- at a later meeting?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That is how we

17 decided to conclude and that is what we did.

18 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Good. And

19 you were involved in those next steps described by Mr.

20 Houghton?


22 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: In fact, you

23 put together the -- the options which included option

24 A and option B for the meeting of -- of June -- of

25 July 16th?



29



3 And so, you had a significant role in taking this

4 discussion forward and in attempting to obtain some

5 clarity by using the June 11th meeting and by dis --

6 further discussions of options on July 16th. Fair to

7 say?


9 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And that

10 would have pleased you to some extent, I take it,

11 because you were concerned about clarity?



14

15 (BRIEF PAUSE)

16

17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Now, you've

18 told us on earlier occasions that -- that you felt

19 that the email sent by...

20

21 (BRIEF PAUSE)

22

23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH:

24 ...councillor Rick Lloyd on the 14th of Ju -- of July

25 was an inappropriate email in that he was -- he was --



30

1 as a councillor, he shouldn't be involved in the

2 instructions to staff, et cetera?

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I spoke to a lot

4 of matters yesterday. I can't recall the specific

5 email at this point, so perhaps if I could see the

6 email, I could comment better.

7 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Can

8 you put the email on the screen? Do you happen to

9 know the number, Mr. Chenoweth?

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: You know,

11 I'm not sure that I do. Let me see if I can come up

12 with it. It may be TOC0183198. I think I might be

13 able to get it.

14

15 (BRIEF PAUSE)

16

17 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Just -

18 - this looks like an email from Proctor.


20 right.

21 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: We're

22 looking for --

23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We could --

24 we could look at -- we could look at email TOC0172251.

25 I think that may assist. If we can see the June 14th



31

1 email of Rick Lloyd in that respect on that document.

2 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Do we

3 have that email number, the -- the --

4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: There we go.

5 That appear --

6 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: That

7 is --

8 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: That appears

9 to be it, yes.

10


12 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: In any

13 event, there's the email we're talking about. It's

14 the June 14th email from Rick Lloyd. And he's -- he's

15 copying yourself and the EMC with respect to the

16 Centennial pool and the outdoor rink.

17 And he's saying:

18 "I want to get some prices to put a

19 Sprung building over the Centennial

20 pool and some prices to put a Sprung

21 structure over the outdoor rink."

22 You felt that was inappropriate?

23 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes. It prede --

24 it was pre-circulated before we had clear direction

25 from all of council on which options we were going to



32

1 explore.

2 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I -- I take

3 it it's your view that -- that councillors shouldn't

4 be involved in the -- in the preparation of staff

5 planning documents and other documents that are going

6 to go before council?



9 Could I turn your attention for the moment to

10 TOC0183198?

11

12 (BRIEF PAUSE)

13

14 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Could you

15 read that document, if you would, please? There we

16 go. There it is. And that appears to --

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: To read the --

18 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- again be

19 a July 12th --

20 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Just

21 read it to yourself.

22 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- email.

23 MS. KATE MCGRANN: This is an email

24 chain that involve several emails, so I'd suggest that

25 we start at the bottom.



33

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Perfect. Thank

2 you.

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I think

4 that's where we should start.

5 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Thank you.

6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Absolutely.

7 Can we go down to the bottom email, please? Thank

8 you.

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Just can we

13 go up a little bit so we can see who it's from?

14

15 (BRIEF PAUSE)

16

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Okay. And --


19 better. We know it's from Marta Procter now. Thank

20 you.

21


23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So, this is

24 an email that you sent on July 11th --

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yeah.



34

1 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- at 1:00

2 p.m. Could you read the email, please?

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I've read that

4 one. If I could go up a little bit.

5 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Allow the

6 witness to see more of the email chain.

7

8 (BRIEF PAUSE)

9

10 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Oh, okay. If you

11 could go up, please.

12

13 (BRIEF PAUSE)

14

15 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: No, I think

16 -- I think --

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Up to the top of

18 the email.

19 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We're

20 looking to -- to read the rest of the email chain.

21 Thank you.

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Okay.

23

24 (BRIEF PAUSE)

25



35

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Okay. If you

2 could go up.

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: That's --

4 thank you.

5

6 (BRIEF PAUSE)

7

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Okay. And your

9 question?

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Go to the

11 bottom, please, again.

12


14 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: But just --

15 just before we leave that, it's -- it's kind of clear

16 that, first of all, you've included Dale West and

17 Keith Hull, who I understand to be councillors, in

18 this email?


20 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Right. And

21 -- and you're discussing with these individuals a

22 possible staff recommendation that may be made as to

23 whether we're talk -- we're talking about direction A

24 or direction B?




36


2 So, you're -- you're including those councillors in a

3 discussion as to what a potential staff recommendation

4 might be?



7 if we could go down to the bottom email, if we could,

8 please.

9 "Attached are two (2) Central Park

10 documents to be included in Monday's

11 council agenda package."

12 What are the two (2) Central Park

13 documents? Is one (1) of those the -- the options

14 plan --

15 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't --

16 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- with the

17 'A' and 'B' in it --

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Oh, sorry. You

19 can finish your sentence.

20 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I -- I -- is

21 --


23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Is one (1)

24 of them the options plan?

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't --



37

1 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I -- I don't

2 know if it is --

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't recall

4 completely, but I would believe they would be.


6 All right. So, you're -- you're passing by Dale West

7 and Keith Hull the option plan that includes option A

8 and option B before it's concluded by staff and

9 presented to council.

10 In other words, you're involving them

11 in the development of that document, is that fair to

12 say, which is a staff document?

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I think it's fair

14 to say they were involved in reviewing the document.

15 But even from my email trail, their input was

16 considered but not necessarily taken. And there was

17 valid reason why we included those two (2)

18 councillors.


20 And -- and the -- the reason, I take it, is because

21 they're the -- the -- the PRC councillors?


23 There were two (2) councillors assigned to LEED parks,

24 recreation, and culture initiatives.

25 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Right.



38

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: And it was

2 suggested that we involve them in reviewing. However,

3 some of their input, I can see from the email,

4 Councillor West and I did not agree on.

5 So, as administration, I recommended we

6 for -- move forward with options. However, we did

7 share that with them and let them have an opportunity

8 to understand and have input on what was being

9 presented.

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So, it's --

11 it -- it appears that it's not always the case that

12 councillors' involvements in -- in staff matters, the

13 development of staff recommendations, the development

14 of -- of staff documents, that's not absolutely

15 verboten, it -- it takes place from time to time, and

16 -- and you were having it take place in discussing

17 your documents and your recommendations that were

18 going to be made at the July 16th meeting.

19 Is that correct?

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I would say that

21 it was practice where there were councillors assigned

22 to specific committees or jurisdictional areas to

23 share information before it came forward to council as

24 a whole.




39

1 That's helpful.

2

3 (BRIEF PAUSE)

4

5 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So, this --

6 this business of being in touch with councillors with

7 respect to recommendations, et cetera, was not -- not

8 completely off the charts, as far as you were

9 concerned?

10 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Not if they had

11 assigned duties in that area.

12

13 (BRIEF PAUSE)

14

15 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I'm

16 interested in reviewing your comments made yesterday

17 with respect to a discussion that you -- that you had

18 with Mr. Houghton on or about August 25th, I think you

19 indicated, in which you said that he was pressing you

20 on certain matters.

21 You recall that you indicated that he

22 was pressing you with respect to signing off on the

23 report that was going to Council for June 27th -- or,

24 I'm sorry, August 27th.

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm sorry. Could



40

1 you repeat the question?

2 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I think you

3 indicated that you were -- he was pressing you to sign

4 off on the report that went to Council on August 27th,

5 the staff report.

6 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I know I had

7 questions about the staff report, and I didn't feel it

8 was as comprehensive or had all the information that I

9 felt was necessary. And he did ask me to sign off,

10 and I indicated that I'm not comfortable to sign off

11 because I don't feel it had all the information on the

12 new options that we were to look for, as far as I can

13 recall, and that's what -- where we had a conflicting

14 conversation.

15 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And you told

16 us that yesterday. So he was asking you to sign off

17 on the report. Is that your memory of what he was --

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes.

19 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- asking you

20 to do? All right. That's -- that's -- that's

21 confusing for me. I'm looking at a copy of the

22 report, and we could draw up CJI0006146. Could we

23 bring that up, please, and in particular, I'm looking

24 at page 72 of the report.

25 First of all, I note -- just before we



41

1 leave that -- that penultimate page, the first page,

2 the page that was just pulled up there, the title page

3 that says staff report and dates it. Go up to the top

4 of that, please. I note that it's -- it's submitted

5 by the Executive Management Committee. That appears

6 to be who it's submitted by.

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I believe the

8 question was if it could be submitted under my name.


10 looking for -- I'm looking at the last page of the

11 report, which is page -- what appears to be the

12 penultimate page with the contributors on it, on page

13 72.

14 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: It

15 seems to say to me that there's only twelve (12) pages

16 there. I don't know if I'm --

17 MS. KATE MCGRANN: There are pages

18 marked on the document itself. It was part of a

19 larger agenda, and so we are looking at the seventh

20 page of this individual document. I think if you

21 scroll down to see the bottom of the page, it's marked

22 page 72 of 94.

23 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Thank

24 you.

25



42



3 event, I'm -- I'm concerned about your telling us that

4 Mr. Houghton was asking you to sign off on the report.

5 There appears to be no signatures at all on the

6 report.

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: The -- as far as I

8 can recall, the conversation was who -- who -- about

9 who authored and signed off. Our sign-off was not in

10 signatures; it was in our name and function. As you

11 can see, this one (1) was signed off by the Executive

12 Management Committee, and all their names listed.

13 That would have been standard protocol

14 for how most of our reports were submitted. We agreed

15 that I would be named in reviewing and giving input on

16 the report, and that's what occurred in the end.

17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So your

18 suggestion that he was asking you to sign off on the

19 report is inaccurate because you don't follow the

20 practice of signing off on reports. There's

21 contributors that are listed on the reports. Is that

22 correct?

23 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: No, that's not

24 correct in terms of what I'm saying. Our practice of

25 signing off on a report was having our name and title



43

1 placed under "respectfully submitted," and that's

2 where I didn't want my name.

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Is -- is it

4 not the case that -- that you had some vacation days

5 through the course of some of these significant

6 periods of time after you received direction from

7 Council on June 16th?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It is correct that

9 I had some vacation commitments which I made, which I

10 named right at that time and, therefore, was concerned

11 about the tight turnaround time.


13 you would have clarified your vacation days right

14 after the July 16th meeting, i.e., on or about July

15 17th?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I believe I stated

17 it at the meeting, but I can't say that firmly.


19 Could we look for a moment at the transcript

20 for the July 16th meeting?

21

22 (BRIEF PAUSE)

23

24 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Do you

25 have the number?



44

1 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I don't know

2 that I have a number, Your Honour. I think it comes

3 as a separate document, the July 16th transcript.

4 MS. KATE MCGRANN: The doc ID is

5 CJI11234.

6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: CJI... Give

7 me that again.

8 MS. KATE MCGRANN: 1 --

9 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: 1.

10 MS. KATE MCGRANN: -- 1234.

11 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Thank you

12 very much.

13

14 (BRIEF PAUSE)

15

16 CONTINUED BY MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH

17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And could we

18 look at paragraph 39 of that transcript, if we could.

19 Page 39, I believe, yes. And are these, I take it,

20 the comments that you made to Council at that time --

21 and you can read those.

22

23 (BRIEF PAUSE)

24

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I guess those are



45

1 the comments I made that day.

2 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Right, and -

3 - and -- and I don't think they include anything to

4 advise Council that you were going to be away what

5 turned out to be some three (3) weeks out of the five

6 (5) weeks and three (3) days until August 27th. Is

7 that fair? They don't -- you --

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I --

9 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- you

10 didn't tell Council that you were going to be away for

11 three (3) weeks.

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't confirm

13 that I was away three (3) weeks right at this time,

14 and I -- I guess I didn't -- I know I said somewhere

15 that I also have vacation time, and I was told, Don't

16 worry. We'll handle it. But I know I outlined that I

17 had concerns about the time lines and especially if

18 we're doing it in-house.


20 Well, we seem to have another of -- a number of issues

21 we're getting at here for the moment, but I notice if

22 we could turn -- you're not sure you're away three (3)

23 weeks? We -- we can't concl -- we can't conclude

24 that?

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I -- I don't



46

1 recall the exact dates I was off and whether they were

2 -- I -- I know I would have had more than three (3)

3 weeks vacation, but I don't think I'd take them all in

4 a row.


6 Could we turn if we could, please then,

7 let's just see if we can get some clarity with respect

8 to that, and that document is TOC0190573.

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: This appears

13 to be one of your emails written on July 25th. And it

14 says:

15 "I'm currently away from the office,

16 returning to work on Tuesday, August

17 7th."

18 The 6th, I think, was the long weekend

19 Monday in August.

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: M-hm.

21 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Does this

22 help you with your memory as to when you were away at

23 least up to August 7th.

24 I suggest that you would have been away

25 from Monday, August 21 right through until August 7th,



47

1 a period of two (2) weeks?

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Well, Monday ---

3 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Sorry,

4 did you say -- I'm -- just a moment.

5 Did you say August 21?

6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: It would

7 have been July 21, Your Honour. Thank you.

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't -- I -- it

9 looks -- I'm definitely off until August 7th, but I

10 have no way of recalling that it was since Monday,

11 August 21st at this time.


13 you said August 21st?

14 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Oh, sorry, I'm

15 following suit. July 21st.

16



19 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: But it could have

20 been.

21 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Could --

22 could have been?



25 So that would have been your two (2)



48

1 weeks holidays that you were entitled to?

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I believe I -- at

3 this point I was entitled to more than two (2) weeks,

4 but I was taking two (2) weeks.



7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And so if

8 you took two weeks, that would be August 21st -- I'm

9 sorry, I'm doing it again.

10 That would have been July 21st to

11 August 7th, correct?



14 So that's a two (2) week period. And

15 if we could look again at a further document,

16 TOC0202597.

17

18 (BRIEF PAUSE)

19

20 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So you would

21 have been away, again, could you -- this is a -- this

22 is again an email of yours, sent on the 21st of

23 August.

24 And just take an opportunity to review

25 that if you would.



49

1 So you would have been off, it seems,

2 at least from the 21st to Friday the 24th as well. Is

3 that correct?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm very sorry, I

5 don't have a calendar, so the dates --

6 MS. ANDREA WHEELER: The 21st was a

7 Tuesday in 2012, if that assists.

8



11 correct.

12 So you would have been off from the

13 21st, which is a Tuesday, to the Friday?

14 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: If I was writing

15 it on the Tuesday I was likely off from the Wednesday

16 to the Friday.

17 And then it looks like I'm indicating

18 that I will be back for two (2) days and then off for

19 three (3) more days.


21 So that's the remainder of the period

22 of time that you're away in August?


24 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Very good

25 And fair to say that these absences



50

1 during August, first of all from the -- from the 21st

2 of July -- I'm sorry, your absences in July and

3 August, from the 21st of July to August 7th, and your

4 absences on very possibly the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th of

5 -- of August were significant times for staff,

6 including the EMC, as you were attempting to meet a

7 very tight timeline to get the staff report prepared

8 for the 27th.

9 And you were concerned about the time

10 they were giving you, because you expressed that

11 concern to Council on the 16th, you didn't tell them

12 that you were going to be on vacation, but you

13 expressed a concern about timelines.

14 So you're off at a -- at a pretty

15 critical time in the development of that staff report,

16 is that fair?

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That is fair.


19 And I know that you indicated that --

20 that you made an attempt to stay in touch, people had

21 your email address and -- and things of that nature

22 and you indicated that you got some documents, but

23 little -- little doubt that not being in the office

24 for, well, at least two and a half (2 1/2) weeks

25 through the course of that critical period of time



51

1 would take you out of the loop a little bit in terms

2 of the development of that -- of that critical report

3 for August 27th.



6 And I'm looking at a comment or an

7 email done by the mayor that was completed on the 26th

8 of August. Could we turn to document number

9 TOC0204989, please?

10 If you could just read -- it looks like

11 she's responding to an email from -- from Keith Hull.

12 If we could go down to, first of all, the email from

13 Keith Hull, just so we can see the context of the --

14 of the email exchange.

15 I think we're going the wrong way.

16 There we go.

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Could we start

18 right at the bottom of the email trail so I have

19 context, please?

20 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Certainly.

21

22 (BRIEF PAUSE)

23

24 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: You tell me

25 when we can move up.



52

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: If you could just

2 go down a little bit more. Thank you.

3 I just wanted to see if I was on that

4 email trail, sorry.


6 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Okay. No.

7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Can we go up

8 a little further to the email from Keith Hull?

9 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I'm just

10 going to read this.

11 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Sure, no

12 problem.

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Thank you.

14 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So Keith

15 Hull writes to the Mayor, Sandra Cooper, and others:

16 "Looking forward to tomorrow

17 evening's meeting. A quick

18 question, who is making the

19 presentations, et cetera."

20 And the answer comes from the Mayor,

21 can we go up to that email if we could, please?

22 "Hello, Councillor Hull", et cetera, you can read that

23 to yourself.

24 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I've read it,

25 thank you.



53


2 So that he -- he -- it's pretty clear

3 that you're not making the presentation on the 27th,

4 correct?


6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And it says

7 you've been away, obviously?


9 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So Marjory

10 Leonard, who is a member of the EMC, will present the

11 cost -- costing and procurement issues at that time

12 and not you?

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That's what it

14 says.


16 This -- this would normally, I take it,

17 have been the kind of -- of think you were involved in

18 June 11th, you were involved in June 16th, you

19 prepared the options plan for June 16th.

20 I take it as -- as staff in charge of

21 parks and recreation, director of parks and

22 recreation, you would have normally been pretty

23 involved in the presentation that would have been made

24 on August 27th?




54

1 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: You would

2 have likely been one of the speakers, as you were on

3 June 11th and June 16th, because it's a parks and rec

4 matter?



7 But you weren't involved because you'd

8 been on vacation and -- is that fair?

9 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That would have

10 been one of the reasons.


12 And the mayor says at the end of this:

13 "Marta has been on vacation for two

14 and a half weeks during the past

15 four weeks, hence the executive

16 management team being closely

17 involved. Marta has provided some

18 input and staff report also."

19 Is that -- is that an accurate

20 statement from the Mayor?

21 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Marta has provided

22 some input to the staff report also, that's correct.

23 Yes.

24 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Yes.

25 I'm more interested in the first part



55

1 of that statement:

2 "Marta has been off for two and a

3 half weeks of the past four weeks,

4 hence the executive management team

5 being closely involved."

6 So in -- in your absence it's pretty

7 clear, and you told us of that earlier, that the

8 executive management team, over many of the

9 responsibilities might otherwise have been yours

10 during that critical period of time?



13 And so it comes as no surprise that

14 when you'd been away for some two and a half (2 1/2)

15 weeks, and the executive management team had been

16 closely involved, that the August 27th report comes

17 from the executive management team, because they'd

18 been the people intricately involved in the

19 preparation of the report. Is that fair?



22 So that we don't have to sign the

23 report, you've indicated that's not your usual

24 practice with respect to staff reports and so there

25 would have been no suggestion that -- that someone



56

1 needed you to sign the report of August 27th, because

2 you don't sign reports?

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: The word "sign

4 off" is different than signing the report. And I

5 believe I was asked to be named as one (1) of the

6 authors of the report.

7 I can't recall specifically what

8 language was used where. That is what the discussion

9 was about.


11 So -- so it wasn't about you signing

12 off because there is no sign off?



15 It's unlikely to have been about the

16 fact that the staff report comes from the Executive

17 Management Committee, because you acknowledge that the

18 Executive Management Committee, because of your

19 absence from work for two and a half (2 1/2) weeks

20 during this critical period of time, had done most of

21 the work and it makes sense that the report was from

22 the Executive Management Committee?

23 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I agree, but I was

24 asked to be on -- named with them on -- by Mr.

25 Houghton, I was asked to be named as one (1) of the



57

1 authors of the report.

2 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Well, you --

3 you were named. They simply seem to have named the

4 Executive Management Committee that you say quite

5 reasonably submitted the report and they named that

6 Executive Management Committee, which doesn't seem

7 unusual to me given the fact that it's a report from

8 the Executive Management Committee because of your

9 absence, correct?



12 And they name you as a contributor?



15 And you've indicated that you were properly named as a

16 contributor. So, what -- what possibly could there

17 been -- been a disagreement between you and Mr.

18 Houghton over in the conversation that you suggest

19 took place?

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'll restate that

21 I was asked to be named as one (1) of the authors, not

22 one (1) of the ones with input, and that is what I

23 asked to have, that -- that I was a contributor, not

24 one (1) of the authors.

25 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Oh. So,



58

1 what -- what was -- what was the approach here,

2 Executive Management Committee and Marta Proctor? Is

3 that what -- what the suggested arrangement was?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm not sure what

5 Mr. Houghton wanted to do when he named that, but --

6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: But you're -

7 - you're not -- you're not sure?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: (NO AUDIBLE

9 RESPONSE).

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Okay.

11 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Just -

12 - just a minute. You were going to complete -- you

13 said you weren't sure. What -- what was the rest of

14 your answer?

15 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I was not sure how

16 he would have liked to have shown that; would he have

17 just put my name and the executive committee as

18 contributors or whether he would have had my name

19 listed with the executive management committee.

20 I wasn't physically there and I didn't

21 see it, it was a phone conversation.

22



25 But there's -- there's no doubt that the way the



59

1 report turned out, being from the Executive Management

2 Committee, naming the members of the Executive

3 Management Committee and naming you as a contributor,

4 there was nothing amiss about that?

5 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: No, I would agree.


7

8 (BRIEF PAUSE)

9


11 acknowledge, I think, in your evidence in-chief that

12 when it became clear that you were going to be away,

13 that Mr. Houghton spoke to you and said that they

14 would attempt to pick up the work in your absence.

15 You had a discussion with Mr. Houghton

16 in that respect?

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That was the

18 conclusion of the discussion. I believe we talked

19 about seeing if we could extend the time line to get

20 the -- to get our work done more reasonably.

21 But that was the conclusion, that the

22 executive management committee would assume some of

23 the work to get it done within the deadline.

24 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Because of

25 your vacations?



60

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Because I had

2 commitments in my vacation; that is correct.


4 All right. You indicated that this affected -- this

5 discussion you had with Mr. Houghton allegedly on

6 August 25th, you indicated that this had an affect on

7 your work and affected your approach to things?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I believe I was

9 asked a question which I don't recall at this time.

10 So, to answer that question I'd prefer to hear the

11 question that I answered again, if possible, because I

12 didn't state that I was asked a question.

13 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Forgetting

14 about the question you asked, do you remember that you

15 gave evidence yesterday that this conversation you

16 allegedly had with Mr. Houghton affected your work?

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I don't recall the

18 question being stated that way, so I -- I'm sorry, I

19 can't say I said that.


21 Thank you. I'm -- I'm not going to take up the

22 invitation to go back into your transcript of

23 yesterday, so I'll attempt to move on and see what, if

24 any, affect it appears to have had in your work.

25 I'm looking at a document which is



61

1 TOC0207166.

2

3 (BRIEF PAUSE)

4

5 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And go down

6 to the bottom of that, if we could, please, so the

7 witness could see the full nature of the -- of the

8 exchange that took place.

9 It -- it may be that -- that we can go

10 up a little further to the email of Mr. Houghton to

11 Marta Proctor on August 29th. Could you go up to that

12 email, please? There you go.

13 If you want to go down, we -- I'm hap -

14 - quite happy to do that, but I'm interested in your

15 exchange with Mr. Houghton on August 29th, some four

16 (4) days after this alleged phone conversation and

17 after the meeting of August 27th.

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Could you go up a

19 little, please, so I could see... And if you could go

20 up a little bit more. Okay. And your question,

21 please?

22 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Yeah. So,

23 you received the email from Mr. Houghton of August

24 29th. Could we --

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: M-hm.



62

1 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- go down

2 to that email, please? And Mr. Houghton's asking:

3 "Would you feel comfortable emailing

4 back to Joe and telling him that he

5 -- that he has it wrong? It should

6 be a happy day. We'll be getting a

7 nice surface and a new indoor pool.

8 And this could be just the beginning

9 of something great. If you don't,

10 I'll understand."

11 So, Mr. Houghton was asking you to

12 write an email to Joe telling him it was a happy day;

13 in other words, a supportive email for the -- for the

14 matters that have been recommended to council on the

15 27th and the council had voted to -- to support on the

16 27th.

17 He's asking you to write a supportive

18 email to Joe with respect to the matters that -- that

19 were in the report and voted on at council on the

20 27th. And your response is, "Absolutely"?



23 I -- I take from that -- and we can read the rest of -

24 - of your response. I -- I take from that that, as

25 the 29th, in any event, you had no trouble absolutely



63

1 supporting the position that council had taken on the

2 27th and the report that had come further -- come

3 forward?


5 Once there's council direction, I follow it. And I

6 had no trouble following that.

7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Good. I

8 understand.

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So, that I -

13 - I -- as a secondary matter, I don't seem to note any

14 -- any sense of displeasure or anything of that nature

15 between yourself and Mr. Houghton in that email. Is

16 that fair?


18 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So that, if

19 -- if this alleged conversation of the 25th of August

20 had any affect on you, that affect certainly wasn't

21 evident by the time of this email exchange on

22 Wednesday August 29th?

23 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I would suggest

24 that it would be a matter of record for my

25 professional career that I have remained professional



64

1 and respectful in all my communication and have been

2 known to behave that way.

3 So, we did maintain a professional and

4 respectful relationship despite the conversation.


6 Very good. So, the conversation, if it occurred, does

7 not appear to have affected your professional approach

8 to your work?



11 very much. Could we look at a further email,

12 TOC0215881?

13

14 (BRIEF PAUSE)

15

16 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Again, this

17 is a document you seem to have sent to -- to Mr.

18 Houghton on the 17th of September. And it appears to

19 have been following a possible absence -- I'm a little

20 uncertain about that, but following an absence during

21 the course of the week prior to September 17th?

22

23 (BRIEF PAUSE)

24




65


2 And, again, you, in this email, seem to be thanking

3 Mr. Houghton for his understanding of the necessity

4 for a bit of an absence for you in that prior week.

5 So, you were thanking Mr. Houghton for

6 his ongoing understanding?


8 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So, that it

9 certain appears in mid-September, in any event, that

10 you have an ongoing positive relationship with Mr.

11 Houghton?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: We've maintained

13 an ongoing respectful and professional relationship.


15

16 (BRIEF PAUSE)

17

18 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I think that

19 -- just a couple of questions on some of the things I

20 believe you said yesterday. It's -- it's pretty clear

21 that no investigation was done by staff with respect

22 to possible other structures to put over the pool.

23 That's what you told us yesterday. And

24 I just want to make the point that there's nothing --

25 nothing unique or unfortunate or a misappropriation of



66

1 time by staff in that that's -- they were specifically

2 directed as a result of the resolution of July 16th to

3 put a fabric roof over the pool?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm sorry, is --

5 what's the question, sorry?

6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: You had said

7 yesterday that there -- that the staff did not

8 investigate other structures over the pool. And I'm -

9 - I'm talking about during the time after the 16th of

10 July and before the 27th of August.

11 You made the comment yesterday that

12 they didn't investigate other structures. And I just

13 really wanted to clarify your statement in that

14 respect.

15 They didn't investigate other

16 structures, I take it just as -- because they were

17 directed specifically with respect to a fabric

18 structure over the pool to report on by August 27th?

19

20 (BRIEF PAUSE)

21


23 recollection, what I said was I believed we were to

24 explore the benefits and any associated implications

25 of covering an outdoor pool with a fabric structure



67

1 and come back with information.


3 So, I take it that you don't find it unusual that

4 there was no expiration by staff following that

5 direction of the 16th other than an exploration of a

6 fabric roof for the pool?

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm sorry, could

8 you please repeat the question?

9 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: You're

10 making the comment that staff only investigated fabric

11 roofs for the pool. You made that comment yesterday.

12 I just want to explore if there's anything unique

13 about the fact that they only explored fabric roofs.

14 It's pretty clear that they only

15 explored fabric roofs because in the resolution they

16 were asked to enclose the outdoor pool with a fabric

17 building --

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm ver --

19 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- usual

20 about the fact that they only explored fabric roofs,

21 is there? I'm just asking you -- I just --

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I -- I --

23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- exploring

24 the comment of yesterday.

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: -- I'm very sorry.



68

1 I don't recall saying I found it unusual that we only

2 explored --

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I didn't --

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: -- fabric roofs.

5 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- I didn't

6 say that you said you found it unusual.


8 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I simply

9 said that you said they only explored fabric roofs.

10 I'm trying to establish whether, in your mind, there

11 was anything inappropriate about them only exploring

12 fabric roofs and not exploring other structures.

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: No, there would be

14 --

15 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We're --

16 we're labouring this probably a little longer than we

17 should be, but --

18 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Yeah,

19 I would say you are.

20 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Yeah. Well,

21 I'm simply -- simply --

22 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: But --

23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- trying to

24 get the answer to the client (sic). Is there -- is

25 there anything unusual --



69


2 but --

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- and I'll

4 ask -- maybe another question.

5 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: --

6 though, you know, it appea -- it appears Ms. Proctor

7 doesn't recollect her evidence the way you put it to

8 her. Maybe you can ask the question a different way.

9


11 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Would there

12 be anything unusual about staff only exploring a

13 fabric roof after the direction they received -- a

14 fabric roof over the pool, after the direction they

15 received from Council on June 6 -- on July 16th?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Absolutely not.


18 very much. I'm sorry we got mired in that one. In

19 any event, we'll move on to other matters.

20

21 (BRIEF PAUSE)

22


24 interested in your comment, you were never given -- I

25 think you told us yesterday, in the -- as a result of



70

1 a question put to you by Inquiry counsel, that you

2 were never given a reason for the rush in preparing

3 this report by August 27th.


5 recollection, that is correct.


7 would have been at the meeting of Council that took

8 place on July 16th; in fact, you presented the very

9 options that were put before Council on that evening.


11 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Okay, and

12 you would have heard the comments of the various

13 councillors with respect to their views on moving

14 forward on this project.



17 Could we turn to the transcript of the July 16th

18 meeting, if we could, please. We were at that a

19 moment ago, and there was -- you were kind enough to

20 give me the number for that transcript, Inquiry

21 counsel. Can you do that again so we can pull up that

22 transcript?

23 MS. KATE MCGRANN: CJI11234.


25 Can we look at the comments of Deputy Mayor Lloyd,



71

1 which are at page 22 to 23 of that transcript?

2

3 (BRIEF PAUSE)

4


6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: He expresses

7 a concern in the fourth paragraph:

8 "You know, as a chair of the budget,

9 my concern with the project is

10 initial costs and our ability to

11 service the debt and the debenture

12 debt, and then the ongoing

13 maintenance cost that will be faced

14 in the future. I don't disagree

15 that we need it. I don't disagree

16 that we need it -- that we needed it

17 ten years ago, in fact, but $35

18 million plus a lot of money, whether

19 it's phased in or not."

20 So he was clearly expressing, as some

21 of the councillors had expressed earlier on June 11th

22 -- he was expressing a concern about -- about the

23 cost. And if we can go down a little further, the

24 paragraph that starts, "I really thought long and

25 hard." There we go.



72

1 "I really thought long and hard, and

2 I've had many discussions with our -

3 - with our residents, and I believe

4 that, ultimately, we can have a

5 multi-use facility, but not today.

6 In the future, and with a phased-in

7 approach, is what I really believe."

8 So he's talking about not doing the

9 full multi-use again, but he's talking about a -- a

10 phased-in basis.

11 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: It --

12 it -- it seems to me that this witness commenting on

13 what the Deputy Mayor said isn't helpful. We've got

14 his comments. We've got the transcript. Whether the

15 witness agrees that that's the purport of his remarks

16 or not, really matter. We've got the transcript.

17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We do have a

18 transcript. We also have the statement of this

19 witness that she --

20 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Didn't

21 know why they were in such a rush.

22 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- why there

23 was such a rush.

24 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: I

25 understand.



73

1 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And --

2 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: It --

3 it --

4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- it -- it

5 would seem to be useful to -- to understand what the

6 mood of Council was at that point and why that may

7 well have developed a sense of urgency with respect to

8 the necessity of getting a staff report done by June -

9 - by August 27th and getting -- getting a decision

10 made.

11 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: That -

12 - that's a matter for interpretation of the

13 transcript. The witness has said what she said.

14 Doesn't matter to me whether -- the transcript says

15 what it says, and it's open to people to argue what

16 implications should be taken from it.

17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Well, I

18 understand that, Your Honour, but I'm interested in

19 exploring the statement made by the witness that she

20 could never -- never understand why there was rush.

21 And I want to put to the witness that

22 it appears, from a number of the statements made by

23 the councillors at the July 16th meeting, that they

24 wanted this procedure, this process, to be concluded -

25 - concluded in a prompt way. There was an urgency to



74

1 get ice in, and they wanted --


3 but didn't you already cross-examine her on the

4 summaries of the comments and -- and the assertion by

5 some of the councillors that they should concentrate

6 on ice and water? I mean, didn't we already do that?

7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We did.

8 There's -- there's more of the same here, Your Honour.

9 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Well --

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And I -- I

11 understand a concern for the -- for the time of the

12 committee, but maybe I can simply just do it this way,

13 if that -- if that assists the Commissioner.

14


16 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We've heard

17 the -- we've been through the comments of councillors

18 on June 11th. I -- if I can refer to -- to one (1)

19 more paragraph, Your Honour, and I'll try and move

20 this along. There's a paragraph, "And as well." Out

21 of the -- to come out of Councillor Lloyd:

22 "And as well, I would like staff to

23 give us -- to include in the report,

24 a new ice pad, also at Central

25 Arena. I would like to see us move



75

1 forward as quickly as possible with

2 the funding, again, looking at the

3 needs of today."

4 I'm only going to take you, I take it,

5 to the remarks of -- of -- of Lloyd, but it's -- the

6 purp -- the purpose of my taking you to these is --

7 did you not take from the remarks of Lloyd and the

8 remarks of others at the July 16th meeting that they

9 wanted the matter of ice and water moved forward as

10 quickly as possible and in a timely way to a

11 conclusion?

12 Did that not appear to be the mood that

13 was being expressed by Council at the Jul -- at the

14 June 11th meeting, and again repeated throughout the

15 comments of the various councillors at July 16th?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm pausing

17 because I'm thin -- trying to recall exactly what I do

18 remember. I am -- I was --


20 allowed by the way.

21 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm talking loud?

22 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: No, that's

23 allowed, for you to pause.

24 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Oh, thank you. I

25 clearly recall the new direction and was fully in



76

1 support of exploring the detail that was required to

2 support the new direction. I understood there was a

3 tight time line, but -- I heard there was a tight time

4 line, but no, I did not understand why we couldn't

5 take a month or two (2) months or three (3) months to

6 prepare the information to meet their priorities, so.

7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: But -- but

8 you knew there was a tight time line, and you knew

9 that tight time line had been imposed by Council, and

10 you knew that the mood of Council -- I'm putting to

11 you -- that you knew the mood of Council was to move

12 forward as quickly as possible. That was the wish of

13 Council.



16

17 (BRIEF PAUSE)

18

19 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: It's

20 interesting that we should review the comments only of

21 -- of Deputy Mayor Lloyd with respect to July 16th.

22 You indicated yesterday that Deputy Mayor Lloyd was

23 the -- was the champion of -- of this process of

24 looking at alternatives and moving things along as

25 quickly as possible.



77

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: From my

2 perspective, that's correct.


4 And little doubt that the staff felt some pressure as

5 a result of -- of its interaction with Deputy Mayor

6 Lloyd in this respect.

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Could you repeat

8 that comment for...?

9 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Little doubt

10 that staff felt some pressure as a result of their

11 interaction with Deputy Mayor Lloyd in this respect,

12 i.e., championing the project, championing the look at

13 alternatives, and moving it along as quickly as

14 possible. That put some pressure on staff. Is that

15 fair?



18 And do you think that -- that the gentleman who to

19 some extent was head of staff, i.e., the CAO, Mr.

20 Houghton, do you think he would have equally felt the

21 pressure that was being put on by Deputy Mayor Lloyd?

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Absolutely.


24

25 (BRIEF PAUSE)



78

1 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Moving to a

2 further --


4 think we'll take ten (10) minutes or so if you're

5 moving on to a new area.

6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Thank you,

7 Your Honour.

8

9 --- Upon recessing at 10:58 a.m.

10 --- Upon resuming at 11:06 a.m.

11

12 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Go

13 ahead, Mr. Chenoweth.

14


16 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Ms. Proctor,

17 during the course of questions put to you by Inquiry

18 counsel yesterday, we had occasion to look at some

19 correspondence prepared by Marjory Leonard that's

20 dated the 24th of August 2012. And that

21 correspondence is -- if we could pull it up, please,

22 TOC0189770.

23

24 (BRIEF PAUSE)

25



79


2 might have a look at that, if you would, please, on

3 your screen.

4

5 (BRIEF PAUSE)

6

7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Again,

8 Marjory Leonard is writing to Ed Houghton, and Larry

9 Irwin, and Sara Almas, the other -- other members of

10 the EMC, and she's -- she -- advising members of the

11 EMC that she talked to Dave, and asked him to continue

12 with WGD on the following items.

13 And she's doing this on the 24th of

14 July. No doubt that you had -- you and Dave had been

15 intricately involved with WGD prior to the time of

16 your vacation.


18 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Correct?

19 All right. And you had been the -- the main contacts

20 with WGD?



23 And before your vacation, in any event, the -- the EMC

24 and people like Ed Houghton didn't have the detailed

25 involvement with WGD that -- that you and Dave?



80

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That would be

2 correct.


4 So that you're now on vacation on the 24th of -- of

5 July, and she is -- she's giving some direction to

6 WGD. There's nothing inappropriate about that?

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I think she was

8 giving direction to Dave to give to WGD. I know it's

9 in the --

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: No, I think

11 -- I think you're right.

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yeah, which is

13 correct.

14 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: That's fine,

15 because you were no longer around, and as you've

16 indicated on a couple of occasions, they were picking

17 up where you weren't able to -- to pitch in?



20 So that the fact that Marjory Leonard is -- through

21 Dave is giving instructions to WGD is -- circumstances

22 where you're away is not inappropriate at all?

23

24 (BRIEF PAUSE)

25



81

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm pausing to

2 think about my answer.

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We said

4 before, your --


6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- pausing

7 is allowed.

8

9 (BRIEF PAUSE)

10


12 level of detail that was being given by the treasurer

13 on this aspect of the work is not traditional, and

14 again, I think from a concept costing and options, but

15 the detail, I assumed, would still occur later, or it

16 would be my typical process with input from more

17 appropriate people.

18 However, it does reference working with

19 Heritage Park sites with appropriate people like

20 Wendy, the parks manager, the operations people, and

21 Dave Wood. it's the Central Park location that

22 perhaps, in my opinion, looking back at all this,

23 didn't have input from all the appropriate people.

24 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: But she

25 seems be doing her best to get the best information



82

1 she can for Council?



4 Now another matter that you directed your mind to

5 yesterday, you seem concerned about the fact that --

6 that Ed at some time through this process had chosen

7 to get Dave McNalty involved in the process?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I do not recall

9 saying that I was concerned that Dave McNalty was

10 involved in this process.


12 that you said that -- that you were concerned that

13 Dave McNalty was a -- a concern of yours. I think you

14 said that you were concerned about the fact that Ed

15 had chosen to assign Mr. McNalty to work on this

16 project. You suggested that maybe it should have been

17 done by Brian MacDonald, who, as I understand it, is

18 with Public Works.


20 question I was asked was, would it be unusual that the

21 CAO would be assigning the work of Dave McNalty. And

22 I indicated, and I cannot recall exactly who he

23 reported directly to at that time --

24 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Dave

25 McNalty, you can't recall who he -- he reported to?



83



3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: And that's what I

4 suggested, if it was Brian typically the CAO would

5 have worked through, but I can't recall directly who

6 Dave McNalty reported to at that time.

7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So not

8 knowing who Dave McNalty reported to, you can't be

9 certain that it would have been -- it should have been

10 Brian, because you're not sure that Dave reported to

11 Brian.

12 Is that fair?



15 So that if Dave, in fact, reported to the CAO, then it

16 would be quite appropriate for -- for Mr. McNalty to

17 be directed to do that work by the CAO, Mr. Houghton?



20 And we'll leave that the other witnesses to -- to sort

21 out who Dave McNalty reported to.

22 But if Dave McNalty of it -- if the

23 evidence turns out to be that the Dave reported to Mr.

24 Houghton, there'd be nothing wrong with him assigning

25 McNalty to this work?



84


2 think the witness already answered that question.


4 Thank you, Your Honour. I think -- I think they might

5 have, too.

6


8 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So -- but

9 there's -- I -- I take it you didn't have any question

10 about the capabilities of -- of Dave McNalty?

11 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I enjoyed working

12 with Dave McNalty very much.


14 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: He was a very --

15 yes.

16 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And he

17 appears to -- from what I see through the course of

18 these things, he's got all sorts of emails and

19 amendments to reports that he's doing late at night,

20 11:00 and 12:00 at night. He appears to have been a

21 hard-working colleague to have at your side when

22 trying to put together this staff report.



25 So you were pleased to have him on the job.



85


2 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And happy

3 with the contribution that he could make.


5 being happy with -- I was happy to have him working

6 alongside with me.


8

9 (BRIEF PAUSE)

10

11 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: There seems

12 to have been a number of people that were in contact

13 with Sprung through the course of the period from, oh

14 I don't know, the end of May 2012 to August 27th, and

15 I can think of a number who would have been in contact

16 with Sprung.

17 The first of those would have been your

18 friend, Mr. Seymour, who was with Facilities, and

19 another gentleman whose name is escaping my mind, that

20 you directed to -- to get some prices, and they

21 eventually met with Sprung, correct?

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I never directed

23 the staff to get some prices. I asked them to look

24 into options for covering the pool, I believe, and

25 perhaps the arena, with a membrane structure and what



86

1 the implications were, not directed them to get quotes

2 or -- but to look at the estimated costs and what

3 other people have done.

4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Oh. So you

5 asked them to -- I'm sorry, to get -- to get a quote?

6 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: No. I never asked

7 them --

8 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I'm not sure

9 what we're -- well, let's -- let's look at, if we

10 could, please, at --

11 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: I'm

12 sorry, just -- you were going to say?

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I don't recall

14 ever asking them to get quotes. I asked them to look

15 into this option.

16 And I was thinking about our discussion

17 yesterday on this topic quite a bit because something

18 didn't make sense to me, and it was the notion of when

19 I mentioned that the Deputy Mayor mentioned that that

20 will be covered, and I said it was at the aren -- fire

21 hall opening --

22


24 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Okay.

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: -- and I was



87

1 incorrect. It was at that groundbreaking ceremony,

2 not the fire hall opening when they put shovels in the

3 ground and it was a photo-op and that made the time

4 lines finally make sense to me because I was confused

5 in our conversation.

6 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: This was the

7 groundbreaking for the fire hall?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Correct. Not the

9 opening.


11 So that would have been some substantial time prior to

12 the July 12th time on which they opened the fire hall.



15 So that you would have known about the Mayor's (sic)

16 comments about using fabric structures over the pool

17 in any event, I guess sometime probably before June.


19 sorry, you -- you said the Mayor, or the Deputy Mayor?

20 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: The Deputy

21 Mayor.

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It was the Deputy

23 -- Deputy Mayor, which provided context for the email

24 you shared yesterday.

25



88


2 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Good. So

3 that just -- just to come to that then, your comments

4 -- or your discussions with the Deputy Mayor would

5 have probably occurred sometime in May when they were

6 doing the groundbreaking for the site.

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It wasn't a

8 discussion; it was a comment that the Mayor made --

9 the Deputy Mayor made.

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: That's not

11 the purpose of my question. My purpose of my question

12 is, did that occur in or -- in or about May?


14 the date, but it was whenever the groundbreaking took

15 place.

16 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Would it

17 likely have been two (2) months before the -- the

18 opening of the facility on July 12th?

19 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I truthfully

20 cannot recall.


22 All right. Let's -- let's get back to what we were

23 talking about, which was your direction to Dennis

24 Seymour and to Darin Potts.

25 Let's look at TOC0172248. I think we



89

1 may have already looked at this through the course of

2 -- of your examination, but -- this is a -- a letter

3 that you wrote to -- to Seymour and to Potts on June

4 14th, the same day that you got the Deputy Mayor's

5 direction with respect to getting -- getting some

6 pricing, and you seem to have said:

7 "I saw this one coming."

8 And you explain that. And you saw it

9 coming all the way back to the time of the

10 groundbreaking conversation you had with respect to

11 the fire hall.

12 "And can you please confirm some

13 approximate pricing and -- and

14 specifically I would -- would --

15 could include for both. Thanks."

16 So I don't know, you appear to have

17 been asking Seymour and Potts to get -- to get some

18 pricing, even though it was approximate pricing. You

19 seem to be asking that in June of 2014.

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I recall this

21 email occurring, and I -- as I said, I reflected on

22 the timing because I needed to have better context for

23 my own sake, and I recall having follow-up

24 conversations with Darin and Dennis that this was to

25 do some research on what's happening in the industry



90

1 and approximately what it costs and how it could look

2 for these type of structures.

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Now, I

4 obviously don't want to quibble with what you're

5 saying, but yesterday in my cross-examination of you,

6 you confirm that -- that you had asked them to get

7 some pricing, approximate or whatever, and acknowledge

8 that that might lead them to get some pricing from

9 Sprung.

10 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It could have very

11 well led them to contact Sprung --


13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: -- if they didn't

14 get any information from other sources.


16 very much. I'm only trying to get to the point of

17 who's contacting Sprung. That's where I'm going with

18 this.

19 So it's no surprise to you, I take it,

20 given the email that you sent to them on June 14th,

21 that -- that Seymour and Potts are contacting Sprung.

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It wouldn't

23 surprise me if they did.


25 And we know that -- that McNalty had met with Sprung.



91

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I -- I don't know

2 that at -- at this time.


4 okay. And -- and we seem to have had reference to the

5 fact that the Mayor had meetings with -- with Sprung

6 through the course of this period of time.

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: And --

8 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: The

9 Mayor?

10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: The Mayor.

11 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Oh,

12 okay.

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Again, I don't

14 know this at this time.

15


17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Do you -- do

18 you see anything wrong with the -- the concept of --

19 that appears have arisen from the Deputy Mayor, to try

20 and centralize the approaches to Sprung so that

21 there's not a plethora of people contacting Sprung and

22 getting a variety of different kinds of information?

23 Is there anything wrong with the

24 concept that you try and centralize the contact with

25 Sprung to make sure that the evidence was all



92

1 marshalled in one (1) central location?

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I see value to

3 centralizing the approach, yes.


5 So the -- the suggestion that Mr. Houghton reflected

6 in some of the emails we looked at yesterday that he

7 was told by the Deputy Mayor that he was to be the

8 contact with Sprung, that -- that would make sense

9 given what you've said, correct?

10 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Given how you've

11 presented it, that could be a possible solution.

12 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: A possible

13 explanation for why that was said by the Deputy Mayor?



16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That could be.


18 Now, you talked about being brought up to speed from

19 time to time in -- during the course of this matter

20 because you're on vacation.

21 And do I take it that -- that members

22 of the EMC made a pretty substantial effort to -- to

23 meet with you and bring you up to speed as to what had

24 been taking place in preparation of the report to

25 Council for August 27th?



93

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I would say that

2 yes, they were very responsive to any questions or

3 considerations or matters related to this, yes.


5 And did you have a number of meetings

6 with members of the EMC to -- to make sure you were in

7 the loop with respect to what was taking place in the

8 preparation of the staff report?



11 I'm referring you to August 21, a set

12 of emails that are EHH10, could we look at those for a

13 moment?

14

15 (BRIEF PAUSE)

16

17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And to look

18 at the bottom of those emails, I'm looking at an email

19 that's from Ed Houghton and he's writing to other

20 members of the EMC. He's saying on August 21, before

21 the -- the report is finalized, and in a period of

22 time I think when you again are away:

23 "Dale West just told me that Marta

24 felt left out of the Central Park

25 solution we are putting together. I



94

1 told him that she advised us that

2 she'd be away for two weeks. This

3 really upsets me. We are scrambling

4 to do what Council has asked and she

5 tells another councillor that we are

6 leaving her out."

7 Were you concerned at that time that

8 you were being left out?


10 why Councillor West sent this email. As I said

11 before, I would have meetings with the PRC councillors

12 and perhaps there was some indication, but I never

13 asked him to write it and I don't recall saying

14 anything specific that would have summarized in that

15 email.


17 So -- so you don't think that you

18 expressed to Councillor West that you were feeling

19 left out of the process?

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I don't -- I don't

21 believe I would have said that. I may have said

22 something about the -- the tight turnaround time on

23 the process, because I was very concerned with that.

24 But I cannot recall telling Councillor

25 West that I felt left out.



95


2 And I take it you'd had a number of

3 meetings with the EMC, even though you were absent, so

4 you didn't feel left out?

5 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: No, I didn't feel

6 left out.


8 And I notice with respect to the number

9 of meetings, looking at an email further up that view,

10 and this is an email from Sara Almas dated August

11 21st:

12 "There has been a million meetings

13 with her on this. I was venting to

14 Marjory today that I am sick and

15 tired with meetings with her and I'm

16 a little disappointed."

17 Forgetting about her disappointment for

18 the moment, there appears to be little doubt, from

19 what you told us, that you weren't feeling left out

20 and that certainly Ms. Almas was of the view that

21 there had been a number of meetings with you, in spite

22 of your vacations, to keep you in the loop as to what

23 was going on.

24 Is that fair? You said there'd been a

25 number of meetings to -- to keep you advised?



96

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: There were a

2 number of meetings, I think millions of meetings in

3 that short time frame is a little --

4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: It's an over

5 statement?

6 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It's a little bit

7 of an over statement.

8 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I think

9 that's probably fair.

10 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: And as I've

11 previously stated, it wasn't about the pro -- the

12 direction we were heading in, it was about the

13 information that I felt was appropriate to compile and

14 present to make this final decision.

15 So my questions were typically on that

16 topic and that's where I felt perhaps we didn't do our

17 due diligence in exploring as much as I would have,

18 based on my past experience.


20 So you're telling me that in the

21 meetings, and there appears to have been a number of

22 them, designed to keep you in the process and to

23 discuss the process with you, that you would have

24 underlined the nature of the information that you

25 think would have been appropriate to put before



97

1 Council?

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I believe I

3 would hae.


5 Okay. Thank you.

6 And I think you indicated that

7 yesterday in some of your testimony that you didn't

8 recall discussions about procurement at any time

9 through the course of the process of -- of preparing

10 the staff report.

11 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I have no specific

12 recollection of that.


14 Just from looking at the staff report,

15 it appears that there was some discussions on the --

16 at least in emails in any event, on the 23rd and 24th,

17 I notice Dave McNalty raised the procurement issue

18 initially with Mr. Houghton and then Marjory Leonard

19 chirped in later that day about procurement and her

20 view that they had done their due diligence, which

21 suggests to me that discussions about procurement

22 really occurred on the 22nd, 23rd and 24th of -- of

23 August around the time of the completion of the

24 report. Would that be fair?

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It's -- if I could



98

1 see the emails, was I copied on those?

2 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I don't

3 recall, to be quite honest.

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: So I -- I'd be

5 happy to look at it and confirm then.


7 that I have the number for the email sent by Dave

8 McNalty in this respect to -- to Ed Houghton.

9 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: If the

10 argument is that there were discussions of procurement

11 and that this is reflected in the emails, what does it

12 matter? And the witness wasn't copied on the emails,

13 why are we doing that?

14 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Simply for

15 this purpose, Your Honour. If it's the case that

16 these discussions took place on the 23rd and 24th of

17 August, it -- it's clear from our earlier discussions

18 that -- that you were on vacation during that period.

19 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I was on

20 vacation during that period.

21


23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: If there was

24 some discussions about procurement, and you made the

25 comment that you don't recall any discussions about



99

1 procurement, you wouldn't have been part of those

2 discussions because you're on vacation?

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That's possible.

4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: That's the

5 simple point, Your Honour. Thank you.

6

7 (BRIEF PAUSE)

8


10 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: We spent

11 some time yesterday looking at one of the reports of

12 WGD, which was TOC0201266. Could you pull that up,

13 please? And could you go to -- to the bottom of that

14 report?

15 And we discussed under project costs,

16 this is obviously a report in which they're discussing

17 the costs of doing this project with a steel

18 structure.

19 Do you remember this report?

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I recall this

21 report.

22 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: And they

23 appear to have talked, as was pointed out by Inquiry

24 Council, about a building cost for pre-engineered

25 structures of 7,632,000?



100

1 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That's correct. I

2 see that.


4 And -- and they talked about another --

5 talked about other matters in that report, they talked

6 about the R factors and things of that nature if we go

7 up further into -- into the report they're talking

8 about energy use, et cetera. A little further. Thank

9 you.

10 And would you have been aware that --

11 that in or about October 5th of 2012 Mr. McNalty made

12 some comments on the -- on the report that had been

13 done by WGD in this respect? And I'm looking at

14 document number TOC0226261.0001.0001.

15 If you could just move through that

16 report slowly so the witness can have a look at this -

17 - at this document.

18 This appears to have been a document

19 prepared by Dave McNalty, and this is not directed to

20 you, it's directed to Ed Houghton, in which he makes

21 comments on a number of the things that were set out

22 in the WGD report.

23 Would you have seen this document?

24 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I do not recall

25 seeing this document until I saw these documents.



101


2 So you would not have seen the document

3 on or about October 5th when it was produced?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I have no

5 recollection of seeing this document.


7 thank you.

8 So that you would have been unaware at

9 that time about his express concerns, for instance, as

10 set out in paragraph 2 of the document. We can go up

11 to the top of the document.

12 Initially the basis that WGD was

13 comparing to was an uninsulated membrane system, as

14 would be typical for enclosures for ambient indoor

15 environments, he talks about for dry storage uses or

16 agricultural uses or industrial or manufacturing

17 purposes, that that was the kind of building that --

18 the kind of membrane building, in any event, that WGD

19 was originally looking at.

20 You wouldn't have been familiar with

21 the comments of -- of McNalty in that respect?

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I am familiar with

23 some comments, not all of those, because we had a

24 discussion before the report was finalized by WGD and

25 their report was adjusted to include the -- and I



102

1 apologize, my technical knowledge of this is limited,

2 the R-30 factor.

3 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Okay. And

4 some attempt was made to adjust things such as energy

5 efficiency, because you looked at annual energy costs?

6 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'd have to read

7 this report. That -- that's new to me.


9 event, you didn't get the report so you weren't --

10 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: The

11 witness is now being examined on a report she didn't

12 get, didn't read at the time.

13 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Yes, that's

14 why I'm moving on, Your Honour.


16 yes.

17 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Thank you, I

18 appreciate your input in that respect.

19


21 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So we'll

22 move on then to a document which is TOC0600196. Could

23 you scroll down so the witness can see this entire

24 document?

25



103

1 (BRIEF PAUSE)

2

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: And scroll down.

4 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Scroll down

5 the rest --


7 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: -- of the

8 way into the document, please. Thank you. Scroll

9 down to the bottom of the document.

10

11 (BRIEF PAUSE)

12

13 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: I want you

14 to have a look at the document, witness. Are you able

15 to -- have you seen what you need to see?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Sure, you can go

17 right down to the bottom.


19 I'm really interested in the main -- in the first page

20 of the document. Let's have a look at that. Thank

21 you.

22 And, again, let's scroll up so the

23 witness can have a look at it.

24 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Had

25 you -- just a minute. Had you finished looking at the



104

1 document before it went back up to the top?

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I've -- I was

3 presented this document yesterday. I don't -- at that

4 time, I indicated I don't have clear recollection if

5 I've seen this document or its context, so that hasn't

6 changed from yesterday to today.

7


9 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: So, you had

10 no memory of having seen this document either in -- be

11 -- before the August 27th meeting?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: In the form that

13 it's in, I have no recollection of this document.


15 It's my information that that was -- and we'll --

16 we'll possibly learn about this with the next witness,

17 but it's my information that this was a document was

18 prepared by Dave McNalty.

19 Would you -- are you able to assist as

20 to who might have prepared the document?

21 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I have no

22 recollection of this document.


24 Can we go down to the -- what would appear to be the

25 bottom of the first page where he comes up with a



105

1 figure, a figure of twelve thousand (12,000) -- or

2 twelve million three hundred thousand (12,300,000)?

3 You don't remember seeing figures of

4 this nature sometime prior to the delivery of the

5 staff report on or about the 24th of August?

6 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I know I had

7 questions about the numbers, but I cannot recall what

8 my questions were and why.


10 We'll leave that to Dave McNalty. But no doubt, if we

11 look at the -- the final report, the final report

12 seems to have suggested that -- that insulated

13 architectural membrane arena is seven thousand three

14 hundred and ninety-two dollars ($7,392).

15 And I can bring up the report if we --

16 I don't think we need to. But you may recall from

17 yesterday that we talked about the fact that the

18 numbers used in the report for the steel structure was

19 eleven one to twelve three.

20 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: The --

21 the -- I -- I don't -- Mr. McNalty did what he did.

22 He's going to be the next witness.

23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Well, this

24 is the final report I'm referring to now, Your Honour.




106

1 I don't know what that has to do with this witness.

2 We have the WGD figures. Then Mr. Houghton asked Mr.

3 McNalty to look at it. Mr. McNalty produced a report.

4 And Mr. McNalty's going to be the next witness, so.

5 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: My only

6 point, Your Honour, was it looks like Mr. McNalty's

7 number of twelve million three hundred thousand

8 (12,300,000) seems to have found its way into the

9 final report.

10 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: We --

11 we --

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Is there -- go

13 ahead.

14 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: We can

15 ask Mr. McNalty if his number found its way into the

16 final report. He prepared it. He made the

17 adjustments. The numbers are what they are.

18 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Very good,

19 Your Honour. Thank you.

20

21 (BRIEF PAUSE)

22

23 MR. FREDERICK CHENOWETH: Your Honour,

24 those are all the questions I have of this witness.

25 Thank you very much.



107


2 you, Mr. Chenoweth. Mr. Marron...?

3 MR. GEORGE MARRON: Yes. Thank you,

4 Your Honour. Thank you.

5

6 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. GEORGE MARRON:

7 MR. GEORGE MARRON: Good morning, Ms.

8 Proctor.

9 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Good morning.

10 MR. GEORGE MARRON: My name is George

11 Marron. And I'm representing Sandra Cooper, who was

12 the mayor of Collingwood at the time. I just have a

13 couple questions for you.

14 On the -- the 27th of August, 2012, you

15 were asked to come down to town hall. And, at that

16 point, I take it that the slide presentation which was

17 to be presented to the assembled council that evening

18 was displayed to you. Do you recall that?

19 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: At this point in

20 time, I don't have a recollection of that.

21 MR. GEORGE MARRON: Well -- well, I'll

22 refer you, if I may, Your Honour, to paragraph 471 of

23 the Foundation Document. I'd ask you to review that

24 paragraph, Mr. Proctor, as well as the subsequent

25 paragraph. Could you do that in a -- my request that



108

1 perhaps this may refresh your memory.

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: This definitely

3 does refresh my memory and sounds accurate. But I

4 apologize, I think you suggested I was invited to the

5 mayor's office.

6 MR. GEORGE MARRON: No. I -- I said,

7 "Town hall," and I'm -- I'm sorry about that. It

8 doesn't really say where the -- where the review of

9 the slide presentation took place.

10 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yeah, I was sent a

11 copy of it. That -- it was the meeting that I

12 couldn't recall.

13 MR. GEORGE MARRON: I stand corrected.

14 I'm sorry.

15 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Okay. No.

16 MR. GEORGE MARRON: I -- I read it a

17 little differently.

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That's okay. I

19 just wanted to answer the right question.

20 MR. GEORGE MARRON: Well, the -- the

21 question really is, you were asked to review it and to

22 make comment on it.

23 And I take it that with the -- a couple

24 of minor exceptions, one (1) that had to do with slide

25 2. And then the other was as to what increase in



109

1 full-time staff may be required in the event that you

2 had a standalone arena and a standalone pool.

3 You -- you'd confirm that? Does --

4 does this assist in your recollection?

5 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, it does.

6 MR. GEORGE MARRON: Can you confirm

7 that then?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Which -- that I

9 reviewed it and provided those comments? Correct.

10

11 (BRIEF PAUSE)

12

13 MR. GEORGE MARRON: All right. Well,

14 those -- those are my questions then. Thank you.


16 you, Mr. Marron. Mr. Trudell...?

17 MR. BILL TRUDELL: No questions, thank

18 you.

19 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Mr.

20 Bonwick...?

21

22 (BRIEF PAUSE)

23

24 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. PAUL BONWICK:

25 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Ms. Proctor, my



110

1 name's Paul Bonwick, and I'm a participant at the

2 Hearing.

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Hello.

4 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Hi. I guess, first

5 of all, I'll thank you very much for taking time to

6 travel across Canada to -- to participate in the

7 Inquiry. Excuse me.

8 I think the information that you're

9 going to be able to provide will be very helpful in

10 terms of how the judge -- or the commission makes its

11 determination, so, again, I just want to thank you for

12 that.

13 It's -- I think you've demonstrated,

14 like almost every other witness, I re -- I respect the

15 fact that this is a long time ago, and so it is

16 incredibly difficult to remember specific details.

17 And in light of the fact that there has

18 -- or there was some pretty substantial media coverage

19 related to this matter and the fact that the -- there

20 was an OPP investigation that became public, it

21 sometimes clouds it up in terms of how we can recall

22 specific events.

23 And so, while that's the case, I'm

24 going to try to get -- focus sort of specifically on

25 the 2010/2013 time frame and not let the other stuff



111

1 skew us. I tend to be a little bit sensitive in terms

2 of how some of the questions are asking, so I may

3 repeat one (1) or two (2), and if I do, I -- I

4 apologize.

5 And Inquiry counsel, at one point,

6 asked you about any interaction you may have had with

7 me. Am I to understand that -- based on your answer,

8 that at no time did reach out to you to lobby in any

9 way related to either the arena or the aquatics

10 facility or, I guess thirdly, the -- or for the multi-

11 use facility?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I believe that to

13 be accurate.

14 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And in your

15 experience with the municipality -- and could you

16 refresh my memory? How long were you with the

17 municipality for?

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Four (4) years.

19 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Four (4) years.

20 And you started in August of 2010?

21 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That's correct, in

22 -- in or abouts there.

23 MR. PAUL BONWICK: During that period

24 of time, during those four (4) years, at any time did

25 you and I have any interaction as it related to me



112

1 trying to lobby you on efforts?

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: None that I

3 recall.

4 MR. PAUL BONWICK: During that period

5 of time, did any of your colleagues or any of your

6 council reps raise issue about me lobbying

7 inappropriately in some specific area?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: None that I'm

9 aware of.

10

11 (BRIEF PAUSE)

12

13 MR. PAUL BONWICK: You'll be aware

14 then, if you started arguably sometime in August, that

15 there was a municipal election looming on the horizon.

16 Those campaigns -- I think the election is sometime

17 around the first week of November or somewhere in

18 there, correct?

19 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Somewhere in the

20 fall.

21 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And so, the

22 elections tend to get underway, for discussion

23 purposes, sometime in September?


25 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And you'll confirm



113

1 that in September of 2010 you were the director of

2 Parks, Recreation, and Culture?


4

5 (BRIEF PAUSE)

6

7 MR. PAUL BONWICK: During part 1 of

8 the Inquiry, and I should ask this question, have you

9 had an opportunity to -- even at a 30,000-foot level,

10 to review some of the happenings that have taken place

11 over the course of the last number of weeks specific

12 to the Hearing?

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Specific to part

14 1?

15 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Yes.

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: None at all.

17 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Okay. So, that

18 would have saved me just a couple of minutes. But I

19 can just share some information. And if you want me

20 to bring it up, I certainly can.

21 During part 1 of the Hearing, the

22 Inquiry heard significant testimony and evidence

23 produced that it was a somewhat highly contested

24 election and the election itself, one (1) of the major

25 themes in the election was finance, in a general term,



114

1 concern over debt, concern over spending, concern over

2 cost of delivery of service.

3 Do you recall that? And I'm not

4 talking about it happening in the phase 1 part. I'm --

5 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I just --

6 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Do you recall at

7 the election that that was really one (1) of the

8 arguably most significant themes?


10 the theme of the election. I can recall a theme in my

11 hiring but not of the election.

12 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Okay. Did you have

13 the opportunity -- so, the election is over. You had

14 a very brief stint with the previous council, so

15 you'll know that a lot of councillors were not

16 reelected and there was a lot of new councillors

17 brought onboard in -- on or about November of 2010,

18 correct?

19 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yeah, at the --

20 towards the end of 2010. I can't remember if you said

21 a month there.

22 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I think it's in

23 Nove -- I'm pretty sure the municipal --


25 MR. PAUL BONWICK: -- elections are



115

1 November.

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: They were sworn in

3 in December. For some reason, I recall that.

4 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Great. So, that

5 might help you recall. So, after the swearing in

6 ceremony, or during the swearing in cer -- ceremony,

7 I'm not sure, what, it's been thirty (30) years since

8 I've done it, but there's typically a reception where

9 the mayor delivers an inauguration.

10 There's an inaug -- inauguration

11 ceremony and the mayor sort of delivers a keynote

12 speech. You're familiar with that process?


14 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Did you attend that

15 inauguration?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I believe I

17 was there.

18 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Ms. McGrann or --

19 or to the court book, did we get a chance to get the

20 inaugural speech? Your Honour, I --

21 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: I -- I

22 know about the request, and I think we have it, so.

23 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I believe they re -

24 - they didn't have in the court book yet.

25 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: No.



116

1 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I think they had it

2 in evidence, but --

3 MS. KATE MCGRANN: So we received a

4 request this morning, and we're just looking into

5 whether we've been able to get it up in the court

6 book.

7 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I was trying to

8 search myself -- sorry, Ms. McGrann -- last night, and

9 I couldn't --

10 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: No,

11 no, we'll find out. Is it up or not? It is?

12 MS. KATE MCGRANN: Not up yet.

13 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Not

14 yet. Do you want to ask something else and come back

15 to that, Mr. Bonwick? Can you -- can you do that?

16 MR. PAUL BONWICK: It's -- it's kind

17 of a segueway down and sort of chronologically --


19 we'll wait a minute.

20 MR. PAUL BONWICK: -- in terms of what

21 I'm trying to do.

22

23 (BRIEF PAUSE)

24

25 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: What I



117

1 suppose I -- I -- I could do is -- two (2) minutes?

2 We'll stand down for five (5) minutes until we get it

3 up there.

4

5 --- Upon recessing at 11:56 p.m.

6 --- Upon resuming at 12:04 p.m.

7

8 CONTINUED BY MR. PAUL BONWICK:

9 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Ms. Proctor, the

10 reason I asked is, again -- I mean, I have difficulty

11 remembering what I had for breakfast this morning, so

12 going back seven (7) years ago, I thought it might

13 help if you'd seen a copy of the speech to refresh

14 your memory in terms of what went on that particular

15 day.

16 MS. KATE MCGRANN: The doc ID is

17 CJI11247.

18

19 (BRIEF PAUSE)

20


22 MR. PAUL BONWICK: If you want to read

23 it all, you can, or I can direct you to the parts that

24 I'm going to focus on.

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Sure.



118

1 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Yeah, I think we...

2 Could you please scroll down -- slowly. Continue to

3 slow down -- or, scroll down, please. Continue to...

4 All right.

5

6 (BRIEF PAUSE)

7

8 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Sorry, can you go

9 up a little wee bit, please?

10

11 (BRIEF PAUSE)

12

13 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I draw your

14 attention to the -- on this screen, it's the third

15 paragraph, I think, or the fourth paragraph. It is --

16 it follows immediately:

17 "It's important for all of us to

18 understand our dream will not come

19 easily."

20 Then it goes on to -- I think, the more

21 important one I'm trying to draw your attention to is:

22 "Our community has an enormous debt,

23 and so the only way we can be

24 supported is through sound financial

25 planning."



119

1 And so as we read through it, there's

2 other snippets in terms of the state of finances, and

3 I think there was stuff in there about cutting back on

4 legal expenses and consulting fees and things of that

5 regard. But the overall theme, do you recall being a

6 strong message about trying to right-size the finances

7 of the community?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I have some

9 recollection of that.

10 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Thank you. During

11 Part I of the Inquiry, the Commission was informed

12 that subsequent to the election, the inauguration --

13 that the Mayor delivered on behalf of Council a -- a

14 state-of-the-union to staff, more specifically

15 department heads, to talk about the need to reexamine

16 how you do business, to look for efficiencies, define

17 cost savings measures, where possible; in other words,

18 look outside the box.

19 Do you recall sitting in on that

20 meeting as one (1) of department heads?

21 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I don't have a

22 concrete recollection but a vague recollection of

23 that.

24 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Thank you. As the

25 Director of Parks, Rec, and Culture, I'm sure you have



120

1 some understanding of the history of recreational

2 endeavours in the Town of Collingwood, specifically

3 led by Council and staff over the past twenty (20)

4 years. I can walk through, in a similar fashion to

5 Ms. Almas, what we came to terms to agree on as the

6 number of times that Collingwood Council had become

7 engaged over, for argument's sake, a twenty (20) year

8 period in trying to address the recreational needs of

9 the community.

10 Would you like me to do that, or could

11 I maybe just focus in on one (1) of those instances?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I don't think

13 there's a need to review it all. I was not here for

14 all of it, but I certainly felt the story when I got

15 here.

16 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And so the one (1)

17 I would touch on I think parallels your path to some

18 degree. It was one I watched on the peripheral. I

19 don't recall the exact year, but it was definitely

20 before you. I'm going to say in around 2000, 2001,

21 and I could be mistaken by a year or two (2).

22 But Council appointed a steering

23 committee. The steering committee engaged

24 consultants. They provided a comprehensive effort,

25 brought a level of passion in terms of trying to



121

1 identify need and recommend to Council how to service

2 that need. Do you recall hearing about that back

3 then?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I do.

5 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Would you recall

6 that the committee made recommendations, which I

7 believe Council adopted. I believe, if you'll recall,

8 they actually picked a site. Beyond going to the

9 site, they actually applied for funding and were

10 successful in securing several millions of dollars in

11 funding. Do you recall that?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I recall hearing

13 about that.

14 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And so then you'll

15 recall that -- or you may recall that one (1) of the

16 competing interests at that time, one (1) of the

17 groups that was somewhat opposed to locating a multi-

18 use facility on what's known as the Fisher Field Park

19 in Collingwood, was the YMCA.

20 Were you familiar with that?

21 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: No, I can't say I

22 knew that.

23 MR. PAUL BONWICK: So the former

24 director of Parks and Rec never briefed you on the

25 fact that there had been a significant issue raised by



122

1 the supporters of the YMC (sic) about the rationale

2 for locating a multi-use facility on the other side of

3 Collingwood?


5 recollection, I do not recall a link with YMCA

6 members. I -- I do recall hearing that there was --

7 the -- the end dispute was about the location.

8 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Do you recall the

9 dispute was about the location and also about the fact

10 that it was -- and again, I'm pulling a number out of

11 the dark, but I -- if memory serves me correct, it was

12 around 23 or 24 million back then.

13 Do you recall that number?

14 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I do remember a

15 number, but it's only the number I was told that -- of

16 the grant. I don't know the number of the project.

17 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Fair enough.

18 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Mr.

19 Bonwick, before you go on, just for your information,

20 it may be possible to establish that with the Town by

21 way of an agreed statement of fact or something of

22 that nature. You may want to consider. I don't want

23 to do it now, obviously. I want you to go on with the

24 questioning, but that may provide a vehicle for you,

25 putting the -- that information before us as opposed



123

1 to putting it before us through the evidence of

2 someone who actually wasn't there.

3 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Fair enough, and

4 thank you for that, Your Honour. I did google it, and

5 all I could find was media coverage that said it was

6 24 million, so I think, to the point at hand that's

7 good direction -- thank you -- and I will.

8


10 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I'll come back to

11 your concern related to -- how I interpreted it was

12 sort of expediting process versus following a more

13 traditional process, and I'll -- I'll -- I'll come

14 back to that in a few minutes. What I'd like to do is

15 -- and go to the environment of the day.

16 And so we've heard testimony from you,

17 and Mr. Chenoweth has brought up some evidence that

18 would suggest that there was some strongly competing

19 factions within the community in terms of which

20 direction people felt the community should take as it

21 relates to recreational facilities. Is that fair?

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Could you repeat

23 the last part one time -- more time?

24 MR. PAUL BONWICK: So there was some

25 very strong emotion and positions or camps -- I think



124

1 one (1) word was used in an email -- in terms of where

2 people felt the municipality should go in terms of

3 delivering recreational services.

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I would say that's

5 accurate.

6 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Do you recall the

7 people -- the names of the people -- and if it's a

8 long list, I won't bother you with the detail. I

9 don't recall the list of people that sat on the --

10 I'll refer to it as the steering committee for the

11 multi-use facility?

12 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can do my best

13 to try and do that.

14 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Thank you.

15 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: So there were two

16 (2) co-chairs that were chosen by the committee.

17 Brian Saunderson and Claire Tucker-Reid were the two

18 (2) co-chairs. I will apologize. Can I use last

19 names?

20 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Sure.

21 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Mr. Geddes, Doc

22 Paul was on for a short time and then resigned. There

23 were YMCA representatives that, for the majority of

24 the duration, were represented by Rob Armstrong;

25 however, he had staff that assisted too, just as I did



125

1 as a staff person. Well, if I looked at the minutes,

2 I'd be way better. I -- I'm thinking I'm missing some

3 people.

4 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Okay, I we could

5 cover it off there. There was Mr. Saunderson, co-

6 chair, Ms. Claire -- Ms. Tucker-Reid that was co-

7 chair, former Mayor Geddes and Dr. Don Paul for a

8 short period of time, I'm going to assume they were

9 there representing the community at large.

10 And then there would have been one (1)

11 or two (2) representatives from the YMCA, we don't

12 need their exact names, but Mr. Armstrong would be

13 one.

14 And so that's sort of a -- a five (5)

15 or six (6) person committee would sound kind of normal

16 for that kind of stuff.

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: And then a PRC

18 advisory board member was added to the committee as

19 well.

20 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Do you recall who

21 that was?

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Penny Skelton.

23 All the first, including Brian

24 Saunderson and Claire Tucker-Reid, along with Mr.

25 Geddes and -- and they always called him Doc Paul, so



126

1 -- were members of the community at large.

2 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Right. Okay, yes.


4 MR. PAUL BONWICK: So I'll -- I'll

5 start with the chairs. There was a -- I assume

6 similar to 2000 or 2001, the chairs and this steering

7 committee, along with yourself as a support staff and

8 possibly Rob Armstrong as a support staff or member, I

9 assume there was a tremendous amount of work and

10 effort went into this?

11 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, a lot of work

12 went into this.

13 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I'm going to

14 assume, based on prior relationships with -- with the

15 Y, that committee was made up of people that had some

16 experience within the recreational -- the delivery of

17 recreational services in the Town of Collingwood?

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: There -- the

19 approach to this initiative was not one I was familiar

20 with.

21 However, I did work with the Y to

22 establish an expression of interest and some criteria

23 by which we selected members for this committee.

24 And we looked for a range of expertise

25 and perspective to try and have a highly-functioning



127

1 committee to address the -- the project at hand.

2 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And I -- I

3 appreciate that. I'm a little confused, and perhaps

4 you can shed some light, this is a municipal --

5 municipally-led initiative as I understand it. It's

6 about meeting the needs -- the recreational needs of

7 the residents of Collingwood, and while the YMCA is a

8 respected and active partner in delivering those,

9 this, I understood, was a Collingwood initiative, YMCA

10 being part of it.

11 But I'm curious why would you be going

12 to the YMCA and asking for recommendations on criteria

13 for putting Board members on a Collingwood board, a

14 Council steering committee, in short?

15 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: First of all, I

16 was -- the City -- Fernie is a city, even though it's

17 smaller, so I had trouble switching from town. The

18 Town was approached after I started by the Y to

19 explore the same partnership.

20 And the presentation made before

21 Council and the direction from Council, based on my

22 recollection, was to work in partnership with the Y.

23 MR. PAUL BONWICK: When did that take

24 place?

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Shortly after I



128

1 started.

2 MR. PAUL BONWICK: In fairness, August

3 or September, obviously, of 2000?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm -- I'm very

5 sorry, the -- the -- I don't want to guess dates and

6 it's not clear to me.

7 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Fair.

8 MS. KATE MCGRANN: I may be able to

9 provide some assistance with reference to Council

10 meeting minutes that seem to speak to this issue.

11 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I'm absolutely

12 comfortable with Ms. Proctor's response. Thank you.

13


15 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Going back to the -

16 - the leadership, the passion and the commitment that

17 was demonstrated by the -- by the Steering Committee,

18 one has to assume that Mr. Saunderson and Ms. Tucker-

19 Reid put in considerable amounts of time on this

20 initiative, on this Steering Committee, fair?


22 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Provided leadership

23 as chairpersons to help keep them -- not always easy

24 with the committee -- steered in the right direction

25 or going in -- in the right direction and providing



129

1 that leadership. You would agree that they provided

2 good, strong leadership as co-chairs?

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I would agree.

4 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Would you agree

5 that they were very passionate in terms of the results

6 that were achieved in delivering those results to the

7 residents of Collingwood?

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Can you say that

9 one more time, please?


11 Would you agree -- I'll break it out --

12 would you agree that Ms. Tucker-Reid, as a co-chair,

13 was very passionate about delivering the findings of

14 the committee and servicing the needs, recreational

15 needs for the residents of Collingwood?


17 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Thank you. I guess

18 in short, you highly valued her efforts and her

19 leadership?

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I respected the

21 work of the committee and the process by which they

22 did it.

23 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Sorry, I was

24 speaking about Ms. Tucker-Reid, you highly respected

25 and valued the work that she brought to the table, the



130

1 passion she brought to the table?

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I respected the

3 experience and the leadership she brought to the

4 table.

5 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Experience. How

6 long have you known Ms. -- Ms. Tucker-Reid?

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I have known of

8 her since I started in the City of Toronto. I didn't

9 know her there because she was several layers above

10 where I sat in that organization at that time.

11 So I -- I knew her as the general

12 manager of parks recreation. Actually, City of

13 Toronto the title changed around when I was there.

14 But she was the general manager of a huge department

15 with I think over four thousand (4,000) employees at

16 that time. So I didn't report directly to her,

17 nowhere near her, but I knew of her.

18 So I didn't establish any professional

19 relationship with her until I left the City of Toronto

20 and encountered her as a consultant on several

21 projects, never directly my projects. But I sat on --

22 for example, when I was in conservation I was the

23 director of lands and conservation Halton, the City of

24 Milton asked me -- the Town of Milton asked me to sit

25 on one (1) of their strategic initiatives and Claire



131

1 Tucker-Reid was the consultant. So we re-acquainted,

2 I attended one (1) or two (2) meetings.

3 It wasn't until I was here in -- in

4 coming here to work in Collingwood that she told me

5 she had a place here and -- and said, you know, if

6 there are ever initiatives I'd love to be involved.

7 So that was, at the time, where we

8 reconnected when we put up the expression of interest.

9 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Great. So, thank

10 you for that.

11 So you -- excuse me -- you certainly

12 had knowledge of Ms. Tucker-Reid and an on and off

13 again relationship based on her consulting for your

14 conservation authority?

15 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: No, she never

16 consulted for the conservation authority. She was a

17 consultant for the Town of Milton, Milton is one (1)

18 of the geographic communities that the Conservation

19 Authority covered, so I was asked as the department

20 head for the Parks to sit on Milton's strategic

21 initiative.


23 You've referenced -- and Your Honour,

24 where I'm going with this is trying to provide clarity

25 in terms of why Council may go in a particular



132

1 direction based on the environment of the day. And so

2 spending a little bit of time to better understand the

3 other scenario or the other option was on the table, I

4 thought might be helpful.

5 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: That's

6 fine.

7


9 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I've read different

10 numbers about the multi-use proposal, or MURF, I

11 didn't understand what MURF was, I was trying to

12 figure out that acronym when I heard it, but I've

13 heard 34 to 35 million and then I've seen today 35

14 million plus.

15 Irrespective of the exact number, would

16 you agree that it is a very significant amount of

17 money for a municipality the size of Collingwood?

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I would agree

19 that that would have been a significant investment in

20 that time for a municipality like Collingwood.

21 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Would you also

22 agree that if 34 or $35 million was invested into

23 recreational facilities into the Town of Collingwood,

24 in the short term that would have had very sizeable

25 and economic impact in terms of some of the service



133

1 providers that were helping facilitate the

2 construction of this new 34, $35 million dollar

3 facility?

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm sorry. Could

5 you state that question a different way? I didn't

6 understand it totally.


8 Would you agree that if Council had

9 approved a 34 or $35 million dollar budget to support

10 this multi-use facility, that had the ability to have

11 very significant impact economically during that

12 construction phase for the Town of Collingwood?

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I would

14 agree.

15 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Thank you. You --

16 your testimony yesterday spoke about a company named

17 Ameresco?

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Ameresco?

19 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Ameresco. I was

20 Googling it and wondered why nothing would come up.

21 Ameresco, sorry.

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm not familiar

23 with them myself, I believe they're called Ameresco.

24 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Ameresco, thank

25 you.



134

1 You alluded or you made mention that as

2 part of the work the committee had done in terms of a

3 recommendation, that Ameresco, and I believe you

4 mentioned Greenland Engineering, had sought to become

5 a proponent or a lead or a participant in providing

6 that solution to the Town of Collingwood.

7 Is that what I understood to be

8 correct?

9 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: They offered a

10 consideration that they wanted to be considered in the

11 go-forward plan.

12 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Right. And so

13 Ameresco and Greenland wanted to become an active

14 participant in the 34 or $35 million solution, should

15 Council choose to move in that direction.

16 Is that an accurate statement?

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Could you say it

18 one (1) more time? I just want to make sure I'm

19 answering the proper question.

20 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Yes. So Ameresco

21 and Greenland desired to play a significant role in

22 delivering on the 34 or $35 million solution

23 recommended, if Council approved that direction?

24 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I can't speak on

25 their behalf, but I believe that to be accurate.



135


2 Was there ever any questions asked of

3 your committee members or your chairs as it related to

4 potential conflicts of interest specific to Ameresco

5 or Greenland? Was there ever any questions raised to

6 any of the members of the committee as it related to

7 potential conflicts?

8 It's a small town, Greenland is an

9 engineering firm, the co-chair is a lawyer in the Town

10 of Collingwood. Was there ever any issues raised

11 about the relationships between the Board members or

12 the Steering Committee members and the proponents for

13 that particular initiative? Do you recall?

14 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: None specific to

15 that that I recall. But I vaguely recall some

16 discussion about conflict of interest in the terms of

17 reference for the committee.

18 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Okay. The fact

19 that there could be $34 million or $35 million spent

20 in a community and you agree that would have sizeable

21 economic impact for a period of time, certainly to

22 those that are supporting the development of that.

23 You -- would you agree that not only

24 based on the desire to deliver those services, but

25 there would be a vested economic interest on some



136

1 participants to want to see this project move forward.

2 Is that fair or accurate?

3 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I've -- I haven't

4 had these discussions with anybody, that was not the

5 perspective from which our committee was doing our

6 work. But when you frame it that way, yes, there

7 could be potential benefit -- economic benefit to

8 people in the community.

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I might want to

13 take a couple of minutes. I think Mr. Chenoweth

14 explored this to some degree. But I -- I think, in

15 fairness, if I could bring up EHH, and I had it as

16 000010. It was the communication link that started

17 out with Councillor West raising an issue of concern.

18

19 (BRIEF PAUSE)

20

21 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Scroll down, please

22 -- or up, sorry. That's good. Thank you. That's

23 fine there.

24 We've had the -- we have not heard from

25 Ms. Leonard as of yet, but we've had the opportunity



137

1 to hear from Ms. Almas both in phase 1 -- or part 1 of

2 the Inquiry, as well as -- as part 2.

3 And Ms. Almas, amongst other staff

4 people, have been very vocal in terms of their pride

5 in work and the delivery of service that they offer

6 the community, council, while it can be a pressured

7 environment. I certainly took that away from some of

8 them.

9 At no time would they compromise their

10 professional integrity or their reputation in the

11 community to simply serve the wishes or needs of any

12 individual councillor.

13 And that's why I'm struggling with the

14 allegations or the statements that you've made whereby

15 -- if -- if understood you properly, you suggested

16 that on numerous occasions, it sounded that to me, you

17 raised concern over process and that your concern over

18 process, whether it be Ms. Leonard, Ms. Almas, or

19 others, was met with the standard response of this is

20 how we do business. I wrote it down on a few

21 occasions when you commented yesterday.

22 And I think about Ms. Almas, served

23 three (3) terms of -- three (3) different councils, at

24 least, maybe four (4), seems to be well respected

25 within the community and the staff.



138

1 Ms. Leonard's been here at least three

2 (3) or four (4) terms of councils and obviously enjoys

3 their confidence still because she's still employed

4 here, Mr. Irwin thirty (30) plus years and now Chief

5 Operating Officer of EPCOR.

6 I'm just trying to get my head wrapped

7 around how three (3) professionals that seem to be

8 highly respected in their individual fields who have

9 made commitments that they would not breach their

10 integrity simply respond to you, That's how we do

11 business, but yet there's no email trails. There's no

12 confirmation that you raised these on any occasions.

13 And so, I'm struggling with this as it

14 relates to the process. Can you enlighten us? Do you

15 have any email records or any evidence beyond you

16 raising it in general discussion that these

17 conversations took place?

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I -- I hold no

19 corporate records from this organization.

20

21 (BRIEF PAUSE)

22

23 MR. PAUL BONWICK: You can understand

24 the difficulty when we've got three (3) people of that

25 calibre, or four (4) counting Mr. Houghton,



139

1 collectively having the same response over and over

2 again with you while they're individual conversations.

3 I would suspect that would it not make

4 sense to you that the clear who's responsible for

5 process, who's responsible for the -- making sure

6 people follow the code of conduct, making sure she's

7 advising councillors and staff as it relates to the

8 Municipal Act, does it not make sense that, if a

9 department head brought a concern to her, that she

10 would put that in writing and confirm that with the

11 department head?

12 Does that make sense to you?

13 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I cannot speculate

14 on what Ms. Almas would or would not do.

15 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Thank you. I'm

16 going to move forward to the questioning of judi --

17 Inquiry counsel, and it was related to the change, and

18 I'm using my language, in our world, we call it a

19 change work order, the addition of the therapeutic

20 pool. And there was some questioning on that

21 yesterday.

22 If I could...

23

24 (BRIEF PAUSE)

25



140

1 MR. PAUL BONWICK: One (1) second.

2 I'll get my little...

3

4 (BRIEF PAUSE)

5

6 MR. PAUL BONWICK: If I could ask for

7 CJI0011245 to be brought up on the screen, please.

8 So, you were asked about the addition of the

9 therapeutic pool I suspect for two (2) reasons. One

10 (1) is it was a very sizeable increase in terms of

11 cost if in fact a therapeutic pool was going to be

12 added.

13 I don't recall the exact amount, but I

14 think it was in excess of a million dollars and -- and

15 maybe more than that. But in your -- in your response

16 you said you didn't recall why or how it got there.

17 And that kind of surprised me a little bit based on

18 your experience as a director of Parks and -- Park,

19 Recreation, and Culture.

20 You'll be aware of the fact, of course,

21 that the contact centre -- for those new, the contact

22 centre was a quasi multi-use recreational facility,

23 weight rooms, yoga studios, or classrooms.

24 Do you recall the contact centre?

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I recall the



141

1 contact centre. And I'd like to clarify a point, if I

2 may. I didn't say I don't know why it came about. I

3 couldn't recall specifically where it came from, and I

4 knew it was from several sources, to include the fact

5 that we shut down the contract centre.

6 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Right. And -- and

7 that's -- and thank you very much for that because

8 that's what I was trying to sort of unroot for the

9 commission and the Inquiry --


11 MR. PAUL BONWICK: -- is the fact that

12 this wasn't sort of a frivolous ask, let's throw in a

13 therapeutic pool. And when you said it could have

14 come for the Clippers, it could have been a warm water

15 pool --

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It --

17 MR. PAUL BONWICK: -- for the kids --

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yeah, it came from

19 several from -- sources, as far as I recall.

20 MR. PAUL BONWICK: What I would ask

21 maybe is just if -- if you could look at the screen.

22 I was trying to figure out what a therapeutic pool

23 was. It actually comes down to aquatic therapy. It

24 talks about what it actually does, the services that

25 it provides.



142

1 I suspect you've lived in this commu --

2 you lived in this community long enough to recognize,

3 I'll say this politely, that some of us are aged, that

4 the average demographic may be slightly above the

5 Provincial average.

6 And so, you can appreciate then -- or

7 will you agree that the therapeutic pool was a very

8 important consideration considering that the contact

9 centre has lost theirs and in fact that the community

10 did not have one (1) at that point in time?

11 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I would agree a

12 hundred percent. And I also think there's benefits

13 for beyond people with disabilities and aging people.

14 There is benefits for programming for young infants,

15 as well.


17 Especially in light of the fact that your predecessor,

18 the former Director of Parks, Rec, had put together

19 plans in the past about refurbishing the contact

20 centre, about bringing it up to a standard that was --

21 would be deemed acceptable that would include

22 maintaining the therapeutic pool and all that time and

23 investment went into proposing to council that they do

24 that.

25 In fact, they ended up shutting it down



143

1 and -- anyways. And so, I think that just reinforces,

2 would you agree, the importance of having the

3 therapeutic pool as part of the overall aquatics

4 facility?

5 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I think the

6 addition of a therapeutic aspect in an aquatic

7 facility is a very important consideration in any

8 construction or design.

9 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Thank you for

10 expanding on that. I listened -- changing over to

11 another point now. I -- I listened with interest

12 about your comments related to 3P (sic) partnerships

13 and the appropriateness of them under different

14 circumstances.

15 Quite frankly, I couldn't agree with

16 you more in terms of your statement. Would you agree

17 that a municipality really has only two (2) mechanism

18 to pay for anything of substantial infrastructure and

19 -- or building, and one (1) is they pay it themselves,

20 whether that be through reserves or debentures or --

21 and part of that could be government support, but --

22 or two (2), they have the option in larger scenarios

23 of a 3P (sic) partnership.

24 Those are really kind of the two (2)

25 main choices they have in terms of funding a 30-$40



144

1 million facility. Is that -- do you agree with that?

2 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: At a high level,

3 yes. And you did include other sources of funding

4 from other orders of government.

5 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Right


7 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Right. And so, I

8 think we were both of the same opinion, that while 3P

9 (sic) partnerships can work well in certain areas, and

10 whether that be water or hospitals where there's hus -

11 - regular revenue streams, stable high revenue

12 streams, they can work but a little bit more

13 problematic.

14 And I think when you were comment that,

15 I...

16

17 (BRIEF PAUSE)

18

19 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Could I bring up

20 CJI0011243? And while that's coming up, you'll no

21 doubt be well aware of the fact that councillors

22 regularly attend conferences throughout the year.

23 We've heard of AMO, I think,

24 Association of Municipalities of Ontario, good roads,

25 road construction, Federation of Canadian



145

1 Municipalities. I'm going through my memory.

2 And so, if you could scan down to page

3 7, please -- or, no, sorry. Scan down a little, wee

4 bit, please. There's a comment in here from the

5 infrastructure. Down a little further, please.

6

7 (BRIEF PAUSE)

8

9 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Did make the note.

10 Which -- that's 243. Page 2, first paragraph. Sorry

11 about taking you down so low, auditor ge -- there's

12 one (1) there.

13 "The auditor -- auditor general is

14 blunter, suggesting that the

15 government's so-called value

16 assessments are a little more than

17 junk science. The probability in

18 cost impacts are not based on

19 empirical data that support the

20 valuation of risk."

21 She said in her report. If you'll go

22 up a little further, please. Thank you. A little

23 further. The paragraph that starts with, "These."

24 You'll notice that the auditor general suggested that:

25 "Governments may have overpaid to



146

1 the tune of $8 billion on seventy-

2 four (74) major infra --

3 infrastructure projects dating back

4 nine (9) years."

5 And I think that simply reinforces the

6 very point you were trying to make. You need to be

7 very cautious when you're entering into a 3P (sic)

8 partnership. Is that a fair statement?

9 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I think that's a

10 very fair statement. And going back to your point

11 about the two (2) sources, and it's what I was

12 alluding to, one (1) option is still divestment of

13 infrastructure, and the reinvesting that money into

14 new or improving existing infrastructure.

15 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Fair enough. One

16 (1) is going it alone --


18 MR. PAUL BONWICK: -- however you're

19 going to do it. Two (2) is finding a --

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Totally.

21 MR. PAUL BONWICK: -- public/private

22 partnership. And going it alone creates -- you would

23 explore various options --

24 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Various.

25 MR. PAUL BONWICK: -- in order to --



147

1 to fund that. And so, I'd like to bring up

2 CJI0011242.

3 The reason I bring this up is, back

4 during that period of time, I was actually very active

5 outside of this community, down in Port Colborne, in

6 pursuing a funding partnership through the Provincial

7 Government and became intimately aware of what the

8 Province and the Federal Government were doing in

9 terms of infrastructure support.

10 I'm sure you'll recall that -- I'll

11 call it the tripartite funding agreements, they --

12 they -- for years, they had the -- Feds would bring in

13 thirty-three (33), the Province would bring in thirty-

14 three (33), the municipality would bring in thirty-

15 three (33).

16 You will confirm that?

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Those --

18 MR. PAUL BONWICK: You're --

19 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Those were very

20 calming -- common funding programs.

21 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And you'll confirm

22 in the -- or will you confirm, in the early days, when

23 those programs came out, and I'm thinking back in the

24 mid/late '90s, early 2000s, that they were quite broad

25 in terms of qualifying criteria, libraries, arenas,



148

1 administration buildings, highways, bridges?

2 It was -- it seemed to be quite a broad

3 criterion.

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Over time, there

5 have been various eligibility criteria, so.

6 MR. PAUL BONWICK: But do you recall -

7 - what I'm getting at is, going back 15 years ago, the

8 criteria was -- or, sorry, going back about 15 years

9 ago or more, the criteria tended to be very broad; and

10 then moving forward to 2012, 2013, 14, 15, and beyond,

11 the criteria tended to shrink up in a fairly

12 substantive way.

13 Would you agree with that? And if I

14 could get down to page 7, please.


16 we'll just let the witness answer whether she agrees

17 with it or not.

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I recall, working

19 in the Parks and Recreation industry, that there

20 became less access to funding for capital programs of

21 recreation infrastructure.

22


24 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And so -- and thank

25 you for confirming that -- and this was really to --



149

1 to help -- I keep going back to the fact that it's a

2 2012, 2011 lens, and we get confused.

3 But you can see, if you scroll down

4 just a little wee bit -- there we go. You can see

5 here, clearly, that the infrastructure investments

6 capital program is very much focused now on water,

7 wastewater, bridges. They've effectively eliminated

8 what Province and Feds tended to qualify as soft

9 infrastructure, and that was libraries, arenas, and

10 multi-use facilities, and that sort of thing.

11 So you would agree that the focus

12 during this period of time in upper-tier levels of

13 government was really on roads, bridges, water,

14 wastewater. And in fact, would you agree that the

15 measuring stick was either health or economic impact

16 as it related to investing in those kinds of services?

17 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: When you use the

18 term "this period," I'm not sure exactly --

19 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I'm sorry.

20 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I -- I -- I know

21 there were periods --

22 MR. PAUL BONWICK: 2010 to 2013.

23 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yeah, and I can't

24 speak to the exact programs that were available. I --

25 I know there was some infrastructure programs that



150

1 came to Recreation around there, but it did change

2 over time.

3 MR. PAUL BONWICK: What I'm trying to

4 do is clarify that, in fact, there was no -- I repeat,

5 no -- significant upper-tier funding programs

6 available to support a 34 or $35 million recreational

7 facility.

8 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Right at the time

9 that we were working on the project, I was not aware

10 of any funding program for that.

11 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Are you aware of

12 any funding program that took place in the subsequent

13 three (3), four (4), or five (5) years that would

14 support a $35 million recreational facility from

15 provincial or federal government?

16 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: I'm aware -- I'm

17 aware of a recent program, but not in between.


19

20 (BRIEF PAUSE)

21

22 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I want to just

23 touch quickly on process. If I could bring up

24 CJI0011244, and I think what I'm trying to do here is

25 give you a bit of background, and I'm sure you know



151

1 this, but Collingwood was not unique in its challenges

2 and its approach towards trying to secure recreational

3 facilities within its community.

4 If you can go to the bottom of the

5 page, please. Keep going down. Keep going down.

6 Keep going down. Further. Further -- there we go.

7 So there's just a -- a parallel in terms of Cambridge

8 making a decision to move forward with a recreational

9 multi-use facility in 2014.

10 Go up to 2016. Stop, please. They

11 were going to do it with a partner. 2016, there was

12 challenges over location. 2017 -- 16, more

13 challenges. Fast-forward to 2019. They still haven't

14 built anything. Five (5) years of following a

15 convoluted process, changing locations, changing

16 priorities, changing councils, and there's a community

17 that finds themselves in the exact some position they

18 were four (4) years ago, not having a multi-use

19 facility.

20 And I couldn't help but think that

21 paralleled Collingwood back in 2000/01, and in terms

22 of -- these councils seem to struggle with being able

23 to deliver from time to time on what the needs of the

24 community are. Would you agree with that?

25 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: That councils



152

1 struggle with delivering --

2 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Struggle with being

3 able to delivering what the residents are asking for.

4 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I would agree

5 with that.

6 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And so I'm going to

7 sort of wrap up in terms of where I said I'm going to

8 leapfrog over and cover all of this stuff. We know

9 that there was a 34 or $35 million solution on the

10 table for Council to consider. We know that there was

11 zero (0) funding available from upper-tier levels of

12 government that year and continuing years. We know

13 that Council has, through their various travels,

14 become knowledgeable about things that have happened

15 in other communities, like things like 3P

16 partnerships, and again, you and I are on the same

17 breath.

18 We know that in 2010, Mayor and Council

19 were elected in part -- in a significant part on a

20 campaign or on a platform of fiscal conservatism. We

21 know that the Mayor has followed up subsequently and

22 said, We need to do things better and right. And we

23 know that there was an absolute need for 20-plus years

24 -- I like the saying water and ice -- for an ice

25 surface and a proper aquatics facility. We know this



153

1 stuff to be true.

2 And so when I put it in that bundle,

3 can you not appreciate that with Council only having

4 14 or 15 months or whatever it was left in its mandate

5 -- I think they're 4-year terms then as well; it could

6 have been a 3 -- that based on all that information,

7 if they're given information from the Treasurer, that

8 they wouldn't want to act in the most expeditious

9 manner possible to deliver water and ice to their

10 constituents?

11 Knowing the history and understanding

12 what I've just did, can you now appreciate that eight

13 (8) out of nine (9) councillors would feel that was

14 the best route to go?

15 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: There was a lot of

16 information there. I'm not really clear what question

17 I should be answering.

18 MR. PAUL BONWICK: There was one (1)

19 question. What I did was I tried to walk you through

20 chronologically or --


22 MR. PAUL BONWICK: -- in terms of

23 points of consideration that would have been forefront

24 in the mind of every councillor.

25 You will agree with me that the



154

1 councillors are elected from the community at large?


3 MR. PAUL BONWICK: You'll agree with

4 me that these councillors typically work, raise their

5 families, go to church, participate in sporting events

6 with people from the community at large?

7 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes to some of

8 those. I can't say to all of that.

9 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Not all -- not all

10 of them, but yeah.


12 MR. PAUL BONWICK: So you would agree

13 with me then that individual councillors -- not

14 collectively -- individual councillors should have a

15 pretty good understanding, at the very least, of what

16 the people that elected them want out of municipal

17 government.

18 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Yes, I believe

19 they should have an understanding of that.

20 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And so when you

21 have nine (9) sitting around the table -- and I'm not

22 going to go back through the list of no funding

23 available, $35 million. I'm not going to go through

24 all that list again, but the fact is, 20 years, no

25 ice, no water; eight (8) people -- nine (9) people



155

1 that are elected from the community at large; and

2 understanding all the stuff I said, can you not now

3 appreciate why Council might want to expedite this

4 process to deliver what they delivered to their

5 constituents?

6 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: It's not my

7 position to appreciate or not. I work on the will of

8 Council --

9 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Right, but --

10 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: -- and my

11 questions were about process, and I answered them. I

12 didn't make statements without being asked a question.

13 MR. PAUL BONWICK: I maybe

14 misinterpreted what you were saying yesterday, but I

15 took away that you seem to be concerned about why they

16 were rushing this, why they were expediting process,

17 and you kept raising that.

18 That's what I took away yesterday from

19 your testimony, and I'm saying, if you expand your

20 lens and look at everything that they had to consider,

21 would you not agree that there was good reason why

22 they would want to expedite this process and deliver

23 this arena and aquatics facility?

24 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: Quite frankly, I

25 can understand their interest in expediting it, but I



156

1 can't understand it in -- at the expense of a proper

2 process.

3 MR. PAUL BONWICK: And I guess that's

4 why Cambridge is sitting there five (5) years later

5 without anything.


7 I think you've put the issue on the table, Mr.

8 Bonwick.

9 MR. PAUL BONWICK: Ms. Proctor, we'll

10 agree to disagree on that, but we will agree on this,

11 and that is, I do appreciate you taking all the time

12 to come out here and sit with us and walk us through

13 this. It's not an easy process, and it is much

14 appreciated. So thank you. That ends my questions.

15 MS. ANDREA WHEELER: No questions for

16 this witness.

17 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: All

18 right. Well, that's it then.

19 MS. KATE MCGRANN: I -- I beg your

20 pardon, Your Honour. I do have one (1) question.

21 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Oh,

22 re-examination. You know -- you know, I -- I left

23 myself a note that said don't forget to ask Mr. Marron

24 if he has any questions, and now I've forgotten my own

25 counsel. It appears I have a limited capacity to keep



157

1 track of the questioners.

2 MS. KATE MCGRANN: And I'm incapable

3 of taking a hint.

4 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: No, go

5 ahead.

6

7 RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. KATE MCGRANN:

8 MS. KATE MCGRANN: I just wanted to --

9 I just wanted to come back to something that has come

10 up now, and it's your recollection of the Deputy Mayor

11 making a comment to you. You said that you recalled

12 it happening at the ground-breaking ceremony.

13 We have a -- we found a document that

14 indicates the date of that ceremony. It's at

15 TOC182487. And you can take a look at it when it's

16 coming up, but the document says that the date of that

17 ceremony is on July 12th, 2012, so the conversation or

18 the email exchange that -- and there it is right there

19 -- the email exchange that I think you were

20 referencing -- that comment in reference to -- took

21 place on June 14th, 2012.

22 Now that we've got a date for the

23 ground-breaking ceremony, I wonder if you can speak to

24 the comment that you made in your email, which is at

25 paragraph 166 of the Foundation Document.



158


2 sorry. Before you leave that, I'm having some trouble

3 with the date.

4 MS. KATE MCGRANN: July 12th, 2012, is

5 the date of the ground-breaking ceremony for the new

6 fire hall.

7 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Okay.

8

9 CONTINUED BY MS. KATE MCGRANN:

10 MS. KATE MCGRANN: When we look at

11 paragraph 166 of the Foundation Document, this

12 paragraph discusses an email in which you forward the

13 Deputy Mayor's request to look into pricing for the

14 two (2) fabric buildings. You wrote that you saw this

15 one coming. This is an email that you sent on June

16 14th, 2012.

17 Based on the dates that we see for the

18 ground-breaking, it seems that that comment could not

19 have been made at the time that you thought, and I

20 just wanted to bring that to your attention and ask

21 what your reaction to that is.

22 MS. MARTA PROCTOR: As I said

23 yesterday, and now I'm even more confused, this one

24 (1) topic is not sitting clearly with me, and I

25 thought it became clearer, but clearly it hasn't. So



159

1 I apologize. It -- it -- it -- there were so many

2 things going on. I was really trying to recall, but

3 clearly, I did not recall properly.

4 MS. KATE MCGRANN: Those are my

5 questions.


7 you. Thank you very much.

8

9 (WITNESS STANDS DOWN)

10

11 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Break

12 for lunch. Two o'clock.

13



16

17 MR. JOHN MATHER: The next witness is

18 Dave McNalty.

19

20 DAVE MCNALTY, Sworn

21

22 EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR. JOHN MATHER:

23 MR. JOHN MATHER: Good afternoon, Mr.

24 McNalty.

25



160

1 (BRIEF PAUSE)

2

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: You are the manager

4 of fleet facilities and purchasing for the Town of

5 Collingwood.

6 Is that correct?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That's correct.

8 MR. JOHN MATHER: And I understand

9 that you've held this position since 2009.

10 Is that right?

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yes.

12 MR. JOHN MATHER: And prior to working

13 for the Town, as I understand it, you worked at an

14 ethanol plant called Amaizeingly Green.

15 Is that correct?


17 MR. JOHN MATHER: And Amaizeingly

18 Green's predecessor, which was the Nacan starch plant.

19 Do I have that right?


21 MR. JOHN MATHER: What positions did

22 you hold at Amaizeingly Green and Nacan before that?

23 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Starting from the

24 beginning, I guess, I started at the starch plant at

25 Nacan as a draftsman, proceeded into managing



161

1 projects, got involved with engineering and

2 maintenance, and became the engineering and

3 maintenance manager of -- when the announcement that

4 will -- was made that the plant was going to be shut

5 down, I became involved with the transition team and

6 looked after the plant closure.

7 Then myself and one (1) other

8 individual were charged with looking after the plant

9 through a sale process to the -- what would be the

10 developers of the ethanol plant. And I stayed on as -

11 - to assist with the process of designing and

12 constructing the ethanol portion of the plant.

13 We went through the startup and -- or

14 period of a year plus I was the plant manager.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: And is that a year

16 up until the time you stopped working at Amaizeingly

17 Green?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yes, I was the

19 plant manager at the time I finished there.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall when

21 you became the engineering and maintenance manager at

22 Nacan?

23

24 (BRIEF PAUSE)

25



162

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It would be in the

2 '90s, probably mid '90s.

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: In the -- the

4 various rules you held at Nacan and then Amaizeingly

5 Green, what experience did you obtain with respect to

6 procurement?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: On a daily basis,

8 we would deal with procurement of one sort or another.

9 In the '90s, the corporation also had a -- a major

10 portion evolution to change procurement policies,

11 primarily to drive the expense of our operation.

12

13 (BRIEF PAUSE)

14

15 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I would -- I would

16 be involved with bid documents. I would be involved

17 with contracts, as well as being involved with the

18 day-to-day purchases and how we were going to go about

19 obtaining what we needed.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: In those roles, did

21 you ever participate in a procurement on the scale

22 that would be similar to the two (2) Sprung structures

23 in 2012?

24 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Early on in the --

25 it would have been in the '80s, I was involved with a



163

1 warehouse expansion, which was probably a couple

2 million dollars. In...

3

4 (BRIEF PAUSE)

5

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: ...the '90s, it

7 would be the late '90s, we did a $9 million process

8 expansion, which included building a whole proprietary

9 process, and all the buildings and amenities that went

10 with that.

11 Subsequent to that, we did a $6 million

12 wastewater treatment plant expansion.

13

14 (BRIEF PAUSE)

15

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Two (2) of those

17 would have been a design/build process, and one (1) of

18 them was a more traditional engineer design/procure

19 process.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Which one was the

21 more traditional process?

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The $9 million

23 process expansion.

24 MR. JOHN MATHER: Looking at the $9

25 million process expansion and the wastewater treatment



164

1 project, what was your role in those procurements?

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The -- the process

3 expansion, I was part of a -- a corporate engineering

4 team that put the project together. I was, I suppose,

5 the -- the site representative on the project, because

6 some corporate forces came in to assist with that

7 project.

8 The wastewater treatment plant

9 expansion was done more in house, where we engaged a -

10 - a process consultant to assist in defining

11 performance spec for the waste treatment plant, and

12 then went out to market to find a design/build

13 contractor to build it. And then I supervised the

14 construction.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: With respect to the

16 waste treatment design/build contract, I take from

17 your answer that was done by way of an RFP process?

18 Is that correct?

19

20 (BRIEF PAUSE)

21

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It -- I'm -- it may

23 not have been open market, but there was at least an

24 invitational RFP process, yes.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: And with the $9



165

1 million process expansion, was there a competitive

2 element of that procurement?

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yes. It went out

4 to public tender.

5

6 (BRIEF PAUSE)

7

8 MR. JOHN MATHER: At a high level,

9 what's your education background?

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I am a construction

11 technologist. That's not a -- not a term you hear

12 often, but it's like a civil technologist, except it's

13 all to do with buildings.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: And is that

15 something you earned a degree or diploma in?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: A diploma.

17 MR. JOHN MATHER: From where?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Conestoga College.

19 MR. JOHN MATHER: And in what year?

20

21 (BRIEF PAUSE)

22

23 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: In '84 --

24 MR. JOHN MATHER: Sorry. I didn't --

25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Maybe '83,



166

1 somewhere in there.

2 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you have any

3 training in architecture?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: From that program,

5 we -- that's what we did as our projects, was

6 designing and producing working drawings for buildings

7 in each of the three (3) years of the program.

8

9 (BRIEF PAUSE)

10

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: And then I guess

12 relative to that, working as a draftsman in the early

13 days at the starch plant, that's essentially what I

14 was tasked with, from a -- from a industrial plant

15 point of view.

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Give us a sense of

17 what you would be drafting as a draftsman at a high

18 level.

19 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The -- the

20 processes, schematics for the processes, layouts for

21 the processes, and -- and the buildings that would

22 surround them.

23 MR. JOHN MATHER: Prior to the Sprung

24 project in 2012, did you have any experience in the

25 design or construction of recreation facilities?



167

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No.

2 MR. JOHN MATHER: What led you to join

3 the Town in 2009?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I had left the

5 ethanol plant, and the job with the Town was posted.

6 I applied for it, and won the competition.

7 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall who

8 you interviewed with for the job?

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: HR representative

13 at the time, I think it was Jennifer Pearson. I think

14 Ed Houghton was there. There may have been a third.

15 I can't recall.

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: And when you were

17 hired, who did you report to?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Ed Houghton.

19 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what was his

20 role as you understood at that point in time?

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Director of Public

22 Works and Engineering from the Town's point of view,

23 and CEO, I think it was, of Collus from the Utility

24 point of view.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did who you reported



168

1 to change over time between when you were hired and

2 the summer of 2012?

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yes. When -- when

4 CAO Wingrove -- or when Ms. Wingrove was the CAO, she

5 wanted to have more direct contact with the projects

6 that I was working on, so I started to report to the

7 CAO.

8 MR. JOHN MATHER: And when Ms.

9 Wingrove's employment was terminated, what happened

10 then?

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I continued to

12 report to the CAO.

13 MR. JOHN MATHER: At that time Mr.

14 Houghton?


16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Can you explain

17 again at a high level what your job responsibilities

18 were in 2012 as the Manager of Fleet, Facilities and

19 Purchasing?

20 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: From a Fleet

21 perspective, maintaining accurate records of what we

22 had in our fleet, including all other rolling stock,

23 not just cars and trucks; ensuring that those were

24 adequately insured; that they were maintained,

25 recommending replacement, determining life cycles.



169

1 From a Facilities' point of view, day-

2 to-day maintenance of facilities, again making sure

3 that all the facilities had adequate insurance

4 coverage, renovation or improvement projects to

5 facilities.

6 And from a Purchasing perspective -- I

7 guess on Facilities, I guess I could also add to that,

8 supervision of contractors that we might bring in to

9 do either renovation projects or maintenance work.

10 In terms of Purchasing, I acted as a

11 facilitator mostly for the various departments of the

12 Town, to assist and help them work through their

13 procurement activities. So I would help to develop

14 tenders and RFPs and RFQs.

15 I would manage -- with the assistance

16 of the Clerk's department, I would manage the

17 advertising and the posting of the documents and the

18 actual tendering or the -- the bid processes, and I

19 would be involved with the bid openings and the

20 subsequent evaluations and award of the -- whatever

21 opportunity it was.

22 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you say you

23 would assist with the development of the tenders and

24 the RFPs, RFQs, what would you do to assist in the

25 development generally?



170

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It would depend on

2 the project. Sometimes I would -- using our templates

3 that we had at the time, I would develop a draft of

4 the project scope on my own through discussions with

5 them and then circulate that for their input, and we

6 would normally go through a few revisions, or some of

7 the more experienced departments would develop that --

8 develop those documents themselves and then send them

9 to me for review.

10 I might make some edits and we'd come

11 to a final document and then be ready to move on with

12 the rest of the process. And then -- then I would

13 assist with the -- the technical part of getting the

14 documents posted and going through the bid process.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you joined the

16 Town, did you receive any training or instruction on

17 the Purchasing Bylaw that was in place at the time?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No formal training.

19 I received a copy of the bylaw.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did anyone explain

21 to you the provisions of the bylaw, how it operated?

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I'm -- I'm sure

23 that we had discussions about it, but I don't recall

24 any formal training on it.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: Another document



171

1 that we've seen that is referenced in the Purchasing

2 Bylaw is the Unsolicited Proposals Guideline.

3 Is that something you became familiar

4 with in your role as Manager of Fleet, Facilities and

5 Purchasing?


7 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you receive any

8 training on that document?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No. It would be

10 similar. Perhaps a -- a discussion on it but no

11 formal -- nothing more formal than that.

12 MR. JOHN MATHER: Other than those two

13 (2) documents, the Purchasing Bylaw and the

14 Unsolicited Proposals Guideline, what other resources

15 were available to you in 2012 on how to conduct

16 procurements?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The Town had a

18 series of -- a series of templates that could be used

19 for various purposes.

20 So there was an RFP template. There

21 were tender templates that were commonly used for

22 engineering projects. I think there was an RFQ

23 template as well, and using those templates we kind of

24 developed other templates for specific purposes if

25 they didn't fit.



172

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: If we could pull up

2 the Purchasing Bylaw, TOC0517154. And while we're

3 pulling that up, I asked you whether you received

4 training on the -- the bylaw or the Unsolicited

5 Proposals Guideline.

6 Did you receive any training more

7 generally about how the Town approached procurements

8 or anything along those lines?

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I guess the -- the

13 only thing that comes to mind when I started with the

14 Town was the -- although it's contained in the bylaw,

15 of the practice of how projects would be awarded, and

16 what Council's involvement would be was -- was

17 something I had to learn as I came to the Town.

18 MR. JOHN MATHER: So how did you come

19 to learn that?

20 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: General

21 conversation and watching.

22 MR. JOHN MATHER: Conversation with

23 who?

24 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Probably the Clerk

25 and the Treasurer.



173

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: What did you learn

2 in that process about Council's involvement with

3 procurements?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Essentially I guess

5 the process of when something had to go to Council for

6 approval, how it would be presented to -- to Council,

7 so in a staff report; what the structure of the staff

8 report would be like; and those sort of basic

9 mechanical things.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: In 2012 what role

11 did you understand Council was to play when it came to

12 a Town procurement?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: They would have the

14 authority to approve, again depending on the amount of

15 the spend and whether they needed to be involved in

16 that approval or whether it could be approved at a

17 department head level.

18 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did they have any

19 role in either the development of a procurement or the

20 operation of a procurement?


22 MR. JOHN MATHER: If we could go to

23 page 3 of the Purchasing Bylaw. And if you see, this

24 is in the definitions section of the bylaw, and

25 subparagraph (q) has a defined titled called



174

1 "Purchasing Manager" and says:

2 "The Purchasing Manager shall mean

3 the individual responsible for

4 ensuring that the purchasing bylaw

5 policies and procedures are

6 consistently applied in the

7 corporation and who serves as a

8 resource to departments in support

9 of the purchasing function. In the

10 absence of a purchasing manager the

11 department head of the department

12 responsible for the use of goods and

13 services shall be deemed to be the

14 purchasing manager."

15 In 2012, were you the purchasing

16 manager as defined in the bylaw?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Generally, and in -

18 - in terms of my -- my function, yes. I would say

19 that the responsibility for ensuring the way that it

20 states that was a shared responsibility between myself

21 and the department head.

22 MR. JOHN MATHER: And when you say the

23 "department head," are you -- do you mean as with

24 respect to the department head overseeing the

25 procurement or purchase at issue?



175

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yes. Depending on

2 whose budget it was coming out of.

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: Other than yourself

4 and the department head whose budget the purchase was

5 coming out of, was there anyone else responsible on

6 staff for ensuring that the bylaw and related policies

7 were applied when a procurement proceeded?

8 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The purchasing

9 bylaw fell under the treasury department, and so the

10 treasurer had an interest in ensuring that the bylaw

11 was being followed.

12 And second to that, of course, the CAO

13 would have ultimate responsibility.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: After you joined the

15 Town and got a sense of how purchasing and

16 procurements proceeded, what was your impression about

17 whether or not, as a general matter, those

18 procurements proceeded in accordance with the bylaw?

19 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It varied by

20 department and -- varied by department, I guess, and

21 perhaps also varied by the nature of the project.

22 And so one of the things that I set out

23 to do was to try to get everybody working to the same

24 set of standards that would comply with the bylaw,

25 have everybody follow the same process as -- as



176

1 opposed to everybody have their unique processes.

2 MR. JOHN MATHER: Is that something

3 you were able to achieve?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It certainly got

5 much better over time.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: And -- and the

7 summer of 2012, at that point in time, was your

8 general -- what was your general impression in terms

9 of whether procurements proceeded in accordance with

10 the bylaw?

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It had certainly

12 improved since there -- because there was one

13 individual that was attempting to move everybody in

14 the same direction, as opposed to there being nobody

15 doing that.

16 Were we all the way there in 2012?

17 Certainly not.

18 MR. JOHN MATHER: And at the risk of

19 asking the obvious, are you the individual who was

20 trying to move everyone in the same direction?


22 MR. JOHN MATHER: Okay.

23 In 2012, at that point in time, if you

24 needed guidance or had a question about how to deal

25 with something in relation to a purchase or a



177

1 procurement, who would you speak to?

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Depending on the

3 nature of the issue, it would be the clerk or the

4 treasurer.

5 And I was just -- I mean, the

6 department head as well, but if it was to understand

7 how to proceed in terms of the bylaw, it would be the

8 clerk or the treasurer, depending on the nature of the

9 question.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall prior

11 to the Sprung decision in 2012 whether you had ever

12 sought legal advice with respect to any Town

13 procurements?

14 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not that I can

15 recall.

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Is that something

17 that you understood was available to you if you had a

18 legal question?


20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Prior to the

21 decision to proceed with the Sprung purchases by way

22 of sole source, had you been involved in any other

23 sole source purchases for the Town, prior to the

24 Sprung decision?




178

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: What was your

2 understanding in 2012 about the circumstances in which

3 the Town could proceed with a purchase that wasn't a

4 competitive tender?

5 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The -- there were

6 several instances set out in the bylaw where if a part

7 just met the criteria you could go outside of a -- a

8 regular tender.

9 One, as I remember, was the -- the

10 extension of consulting work where it made sense

11 because of a -- a change in project direction.

12 There were opportunities to single-

13 source purchases if -- if based on the evaluation of

14 the information there was a deemed benefit to the Town

15 to proceed in that manner.

16 Sole sourcing is also addressed in

17 there, in the bylaw. And I forget what the wording

18 was around it, but it was -- it was spoken to in the

19 bylaw.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: So if we could pull

21 the bylaw back up, which is TOC517154 and go to page

22 5. Scroll down to section 6.7.

23 So 6.7 discusses circumstances where

24 competitive tendering may not be desirable. And if we

25 continue scrolling down under the next page, it lists



179

1 circumstances -- it lists examples of those

2 circumstances.

3 When you were talking about the portion

4 of the bylaw that set out when competitive tendering

5 did not need to be followed, is this the section you

6 were referring to?


8 MR. JOHN MATHER: Are there any other

9 sections of the bylaw, to your knowledge, that deal

10 with when competitive tendering cannot be followed?

11

12 (BRIEF PAUSE)

13

14 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: There's a section

15 on -- on consulting that speaks about a roster of

16 consultants.

17

18 (BRIEF PAUSE)

19

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Any other sections?

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That's what I can

22 recall at the moment.

23 MR. JOHN MATHER: So, if we could

24 scroll up in this document a bit. Sorry, staying with

25 6.7, so down. So, like I said, it sets out the



180

1 circumstances in which competitive tendering might be

2 undesirable. The first subparagraph (a) deals with

3 emergency situations.

4 And then if we look at subparagraph

5 (b), it talks about:

6 "Conditions may dictate that the con

7 -- the conduct of negotiations for

8 the acquisition of goods and/or

9 services provided that the clerk has

10 received either verbal or written

11 authorization prior to the start of

12 negotiations with any supplier.

13 Nog -- negotiations may be

14 authorized when any of the following

15 conditions apply."

16 And we see in subsection (b) to that it

17 identifies:

18 "Where there's only one (1) known

19 source of goods or services (sole

20 source)."

21 Backing up to the language introducing

22 that list, it contemplates something providing the

23 clerk with verbal or written authorization to proceed

24 with direct negotiations.

25 Do you know who -- who was capable of



181

1 providing that -- the clerk that direction or

2 authorization?

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I would...

4

5 (BRIEF PAUSE)

6

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Who has provided

8 the clerk with the authorization --

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: Yes. So, in --

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: -- as received? I

11 guess my understanding of that would be that that

12 authorization to the clerk would come from the CAO or

13 higher.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: And was that

15 something you understood was a requirement of the

16 purchasing bylaw in 2012 in order to proceed with, you

17 know, sole sourcing or one (1) of the other options

18 here, that either the clerk or someone -- sorry, the

19 CAO or higher had to give the clerk authorization?

20

21 (BRIEF PAUSE)

22

23 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That's certainly

24 what the bylaw says, and that's what would be my

25 understanding of it. Was that necessarily practised



182

1 at that point in time? I couldn't be sure.

2 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you say, The

3 CAO or someone higher -- or something higher than

4 that, what's higher than the CAO?

5 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Council.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: Stepping back from

7 the wording of the bylaw specifically, in 2012, what

8 was your understanding about who would make the

9 decision whether or not, for instance, the criteria of

10 subsection (b) which defines a sole source had been

11 met?

12

13 (BRIEF PAUSE)

14

15 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I would think

16 Council.

17 MR. JOHN MATHER: You say -- when you

18 say, "I would think," is that something you knew at

19 the time or is that something you're assessing today

20 as you look at it?

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't think I

22 recall another sole source of anything significant,

23 so, at the time, it wouldn't have been top of mind.

24 That would be the way I would read it today.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: And just to be sure,



183

1 when we talk about the decision to proceed with the

2 Sprung buildings, it was this subsection (b) of

3 subsection (b) that desi -- defines 'sole source'.

4 That's the provision under which that decision could

5 proceed by way of sole source. Is that correct?


7 MR. JOHN MATHER: I have some

8 questions now about the executive management committee

9 that was established after Mr. Houghton became the

10 acting CAO.

11 As a staff member who was reporting to

12 the CAO at the time, what was your understanding of

13 the role of the EMC when it was formed?

14 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That it was an

15 advisory body to the CAO that could assist with the

16 day-to-day operations of the Town.

17 MR. JOHN MATHER: What sort of matters

18 did you understand they were providing the CAO with

19 advice?

20

21 (BRIEF PAUSE)

22

23 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Anything from HR

24 issues to public inquiries to really any of the

25 business of the Town, whatever the subject of the day



184

1 might be.

2 Each of the -- the members of the EMT

3 had their own specialties and could advise on their

4 area of expertise.

5 MR. JOHN MATHER: Was it your

6 understanding that any member of the EMC could make a

7 decision that had previously been within the purview

8 of the CAO?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not in isolation.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: What do you mean by,

11 "not in isolation"?

12

13 (BRIEF PAUSE)

14

15 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It was a

16 collaborative group that would openly discuss the --

17 whatever the issue was. And they would come to either

18 a consensus or a decision based on that discussion.

19 That was my impression.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall if you

21 ever were present with the EMC made a decision of...

22

23 (BRIEF PAUSE)

24

25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I was -- from time



185

1 to time I may have attended an EMC meeting where

2 certain issues were discussed. I don't -- I don't

3 recall a specific decision that I can relate to.

4 MR. JOHN MATHER: Speaking more

5 generally, when Mr. Houghton became the acting CAO,

6 did the frequency or the nature of contact you had

7 with him in his capacity as CAO change as compared to

8 Kim Wingrove?

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No, I wouldn't say

13 so.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: How did you

15 communicate with Mr. Houghton?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: On a -- on an

17 issue-by-issue basis, would probably normally be by

18 email. And with both Mr. Houghton and Ms. Wingrove, I

19 had a regular meeting time once a week or once every

20 two (2) weeks or whatever it was where we would -- we

21 had a schedule timeslot to discuss whatever we needed

22 to discuss.

23

24 (BRIEF PAUSE)

25



186

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: If there was an

2 instance in which Mr. Houghton wasn't available and

3 you needed a decision or direction, was it your

4 understanding you could go to another member of the

5 EMC and obtain that direction or decision?

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Only if it was in

7 their purview.

8 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what do you mean

9 by, "only if it was in their purview"?

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: If it was a

11 financial question, I could speak with the Treasurer.

12 If it was a -- a procedural question, I could speak to

13 the Clerk. If it was -- at the same time, if it was a

14 department-specific question, I could go directly to

15 the department head. And at that point, I guess it

16 would -- I would be escalating it to them. They could

17 decide whether to give me direction or whether we

18 needed to take it to the CAO.

19 MR. JOHN MATHER: So I take it from

20 that answer, if a member of the EMC gave you direction

21 with respect to something you brought to them, you

22 would follow that direction, as a general matter.

23 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yeah. Likely.

24 MR. JOHN MATHER: When do you recall

25 first becoming aware that the Town -- or, that the



187

1 Town may consider purchasing one or multiple fabric

2 membranes for recreation facilities?

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: There had been

4 earlier investigations, back as far as 2009 or '10, on

5 either a -- an agricultural-style fabric building over

6 the outdoor rink, or there was discussion about a --

7 an air-supported structure at one point in time. And

8 those options didn't proceed to any -- to any extent

9 after the investigations. And then, I suppose, the

10 next time it came up was in regards to the Sprung --

11 the Sprung Structures.

12 MR. JOHN MATHER: I'm going to ask you

13 more about what was looked into in 2009/2010 with

14 respect to covering the outdoor arena, but before I do

15 that, do you recall when you first became aware of the

16 possibility of the Sprung Structures being an option

17 for the recreation facilities?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: There was a -- a

19 meeting to discuss options, I believe, at the library

20 with Council, where the sales information -- and by

21 that, I just mean pictures and brochures of Sprung

22 Structures -- was circulated.

23 MR. JOHN MATHER: So you recall a

24 meeting with Council at the library where pictures and

25 brochures are circulated. Do you recall who was



188

1 circulating the pictures or brochures?

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I believe they came

3 from the Deputy Mayor.

4 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall what

5 was discussed about the Sprung Structures at the

6 meeting you recall?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: At that point, only

8 that this is an option that we should be looking at.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: And who was -- who

10 was making that suggestion that this should be an

11 option that we should be look -- we could -- we should

12 look at?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think the Deputy

14 Mayor.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: We see in the

16 documents that on June 11th, 2012, there was --

17 Council had a meeting at the library, in which Council

18 members were invited to share ideas or talk about what

19 they wanted to see with recreation facilities. It was

20 called a strategic planning session or workshop.

21 Is that the meeting you're recalling at

22 the library where Sprung brochures were available?

23 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Sounds like it.

24 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall

25 attending any other meetings at the library where



189

1 Council members discussed recreation facilities?

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: There -- there was

3 subsequent meetings that I attended. I can't remember

4 if they were at the library, or they may have been

5 here.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: So before the

7 meeting at the library that you recall, you do -- you

8 -- you mention that the Town, in 2009 or 2010, had

9 discussed and looked into the possibility of covering

10 the outdoor arena with a fabric structure as well as

11 an air structure.

12 And when you say that, are you

13 referring to a compressed-air bubble?


15 MR. JOHN MATHER: Were you involved in

16 the investigations at that point in time into whether

17 those would be feasible for the outdoor arena?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I was involved in

19 the case of the fabric structure. The -- the air-

20 supported structure, I was not involved in.

21 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what was

22 determined in terms of whether or not the hockey arena

23 could be covered with a fabric structure?

24 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Ultimately, there

25 were issues with building code related issues, I



190

1 think, in terms of flame spread rating and those

2 technical issues. It was also going to be difficult

3 to incorporate any insulation into the structure.

4 One of the req -- one of the ideals

5 that the Town had set out at that time was to install

6 sprinklers in any new instru -- new construction.

7 That would be not impossible, but difficult. I think

8 the -- the real reason it was shelved was it would

9 have been very difficult to get around the building

10 code issues.

11 MR. JOHN MATHER: If we can turn up

12 TOC34069.

13

14 (BRIEF PAUSE)

15

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: This is a staff

17 report from February 20th, 2010, and if we go down to

18 page 2, the staff report was looking at enclosure

19 options with respect to the outdoor arena. If you

20 scroll down, you see there's a heading there called

21 Fabric Cover System.

22 Does this reflect the results of the

23 investigation you undertook in 2009/2010 into the

24 viability of a fabric cover for the arena?

25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yes, I believe that



191

1 was the basis for what went into that report.

2 MR. JOHN MATHER: And when Sprung

3 became a potential option in 2012, did you return to

4 the work you'd done in 2009 and 2010 and consider the

5 limitations you identified at that point in time?


7 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you determine

8 that these limitations continued to exist?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The exact time

10 frame of this, I can't say off the top of my head, but

11 in -- in one of the -- perhaps the first meeting that

12 I was involved with with Sprung, I had a list of

13 questions, which essentially came out of this

14 investigation, to -- to confirm whether their

15 structure would be able to meet the requirements that

16 it -- an agricultural-style building would not.

17 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you remember what

18 requirements the agricultural-style building would not

19 meet?

20 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It was to do with

21 the -- it was to do with the combustibility of the

22 building and the requirement for sprinklers.

23 I seem to remember something about

24 exiting requirements as well, but that's -- might have

25 been a side issue.



192

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: So you recall

2 attending a meeting with Sprung where you have a list

3 of -- of issues you want addressed.

4 Did you raise those with Sprung at that

5 meeting?

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I believe so, yes.

7 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you remember who

8 from Sprung was at that meeting?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not without seeing

10 a list of attendees. I mean, a list of invitees,

11 even.

12 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall if Tom

13 Lloyd from Sprung was at that meeting?

14 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Tom was certainly

15 at one (1) of the early meetings.

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall if he

17 was at the meeting where your list of concerns were

18 discussed?

19 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I -- I think so. I

20 know that -- I know that he was at one of the early

21 meetings and I know that those types of issues were

22 discussed and my sense is it was likely the same

23 meeting.

24 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall if a

25 Dave MacNeil from Sprung was at that meeting?



193

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That name is

2 familiar as well. They may have both been there. I'm

3 unsure.

4 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you remember what

5 Sprung said to you that addressed your concerns?

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: They, essentially,

7 stated that in answer to my questions they had a

8 positive response that their structure would meet the

9 requirements of the building code on those basis.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you verify the

11 answers that Sprung provided you with anyone else at

12 the Town?


14 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you verify them

15 with anyone outside of the Town?


17 MR. JOHN MATHER: Is there any reason

18 why you wouldn't verify those answers with someone in

19 the Town who may know about this provision of the

20 building code?

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: At that point in

22 time that would have been -- I wouldn't have had the

23 information to be able to intelligently present it to

24 the building department, for instance.

25 Essentially what it comes down to is



194

1 they would state that their -- that their -- the

2 material that they built the structure out of had a

3 flame spread rating of under some number.

4 And if that number is under the

5 requirements of the building code, then that would be

6 the answer, so.

7 I think that review by the building

8 department came along much later.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know if the

10 building department conducted any review prior to the

11 August 27th, 2012 Council meeting?

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't know.

13 MR. JOHN MATHER: Is that a review you

14 would have expected to have been done prior to that

15 meeting?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not necessarily,

17 because if it came time to get the building permit and

18 the building wouldn't meet the requirements of the

19 building code, then there would just be no building

20 permit and it wouldn't go forward.

21 MR. JOHN MATHER: Would there have

22 been anything preventing you or someone at the Town

23 from bringing the information to the building

24 department prior to August 27th to ensure that what

25 Sprung was saying about its buildings complied with



195

1 the building code?

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Nothing to say that

3 we couldn't, other than we, at that point, just didn't

4 have the detailed information.

5 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you gather that

6 information prior to August 27th, 2012?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Only if it was

8 included in their -- the literature that they provided

9 us.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know if

11 anyone from the building department was consulted at

12 any point in time prior to August 27th, 2012?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Perhaps in general

14 conversation. But not in any formal manner.


16 personally had any conversations with anyone in the

17 building department?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't recall

19 specifically. I may have, but I don't recall.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: If we could turn up

21 paragraph 177 of the Foundation Document. 177.

22 So this is an email dated June 25th,

23 2012 and it says, it's from you to Dave MacNeil at

24 Sprung and you say:

25 "Further to our conversation last



196

1 week we have been piecing together

2 some background information for the

3 two sites."

4 And then it says that you provided with

5 -- Mr. MacNeil with a series of aerial photographs of

6 Heritage Park, and you also then sent information

7 about the intent for the arena, more aerial views,

8 drawings for the outdoor rink, and photos of Central

9 Park.

10 Do you recall having a conversation

11 with Sprung at some point in the week prior to June

12 25th, 2012?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: So is -- there's a

14 possibility, I think, that this is relating to the --

15 did you say June 11th meeting?

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: They're the

17 strategic planning session at the library happened on

18 June 11th, 2012.

19 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Okay, so then there

20 was a subsequent meeting, I believe, with Sprung

21 representatives, and that would be the meeting,

22 perhaps, that this is speaking to.

23 MR. JOHN MATHER: This subsequent

24 meeting, were you in attendance at it?

25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I was in attendance



197

1 at a subsequent meeting.

2 MR. JOHN MATHER: So if we could go --

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I can't confirm the

4 date.

5 MR. JOHN MATHER: -- to paragraph 175.

6 This is an email from Tom Lloyd of

7 Sprung to Dennis Seymour, copying Dave MacNeil and

8 Patrick Mills of Sprung.

9 And in it, Mr. Tom Lloyd thanks Mr.

10 Seymour for a meeting yesterday, we look forward to

11 assisting you with your plans.

12 You're not copied on this email or

13 mentioned on this email. Do you recall if -- do you

14 recall Dennis Seymour attending a meeting with Sprung

15 in and around June 19th, 2012?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That's quite

17 possible. I -- I don't have a specific recollection

18 of -- of the individual meeting and who was there, but

19 I certainly recall being in meetings with Sprung

20 representatives where Dennis was there.

21 MR. JOHN MATHER: In paragraph 177 we

22 saw that you were sending Sprung aerial photos and

23 other information.

24 Do you know why you were sending Sprung

25 that information at that point in time?



198

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Because I was asked

2 to do that at the meeting.

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: Who asked you to do

4 that at the meeting?

5 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I believe the CAO.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: And did you have an

7 understanding of why the CAO had asked you to provide

8 that information to Sprung?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Because there was a

10 desire to get Sprung to provide a concept and a budget

11 -- a budget estimate on what their facilities would

12 look like and what they'd cost.

13 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you say there

14 was desire to get Sprung to provide a budget estimate,

15 was that the purpose of having the meeting that you're

16 recalling?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The -- the meeting

18 that I'm recalling there was, in my recollection, was

19 an introductory meeting where the benefits of their

20 product were being presented and as the meeting

21 evolved it kind of concluded with, well, we'll --

22 we'll provide you information on our locations and

23 facilities and you come back to us with a concept and

24 a budget.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: And do I have it



199

1 correct from your earlier answer that it was Mr.

2 Houghton who ended the meeting on that note?

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I believe so.

4 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall what

5 potential Sprung structures were discussed at that

6 meeting?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Either -- either

8 covering the outdoor rink or a single pad arena that

9 could be -- that could evolve into a twin pad arena

10 that goes with the -- the considerations at that

11 point.


13 covering the pool was discussed at that meeting, or do

14 you recall?

15 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't recall

16 that.

17 MR. JOHN MATHER: You do -- let me

18 back up.

19 You've indicated that representatives

20 from Sprung were at the meeting and it may have been

21 Mr. Lloyd or Mr. MacNeil, is that correct?

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It may have been

23 Mr. Lloyd. I -- I know that Mr. Lloyd was in town, I

24 believe that Dave MacNeil was in town. I can't put a

25 face to these names at this point, so it could have



200

1 been all three (3) of those gentlemen, including Mr.

2 Mills, but I -- I can't remember.

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: Focussing on Town

4 representatives, you were there, it sounds like Mr.

5 Houghton was there, Mr. Seymour may have been there.

6 Was there anyone else from the Town

7 that you recall being at that meeting?

8 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think the Mayor

9 was there.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you say you

11 think, why -- it sounds like you don't have a clear

12 recollection.

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I -- I remember one

14 (1) of the early meetings the Mayor was at the table,

15 because I think she was sitting next to me, and so

16 that's why I can -- I can recall -- I would -- I would

17 think it was like the introductory meeting that she

18 was there for.

19 MR. JOHN MATHER: So if we could go to

20 paragraph 201 of the Foundation Document.

21 So this paragraph contemplates and

22 exchange of emails between Pam Hogg and Deputy Mayor

23 Lloyd, which essentially result in a calendar invite

24 being sent for a July 11th, 2012 meeting with the

25 Deputy Mayor, yourself, Mayor Sandra Cooper, Tom



201

1 Lloyd, Dave Mill and -- Dave MacNeil, sorry, and Pat

2 Mills.

3 Do you recall if the meeting that is

4 contemplated here took place on July 11th, 2012?

5

6 (BRIEF PAUSE)

7

8 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't have a

9 specific recollection, but I certainly could have.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall being

11 in more than one (1) meeting with the mayor and

12 representatives from Sprung?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Certainly with

14 representatives from Sprung.

15

16 (BRIEF PAUSE)

17

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I would be unsure

19 about the other attendees.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: And my question is

21 really: Do you have any recollection of attending more

22 than one (1) meeting where there's representatives of

23 Sprung there and the mayor is also there?

24 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No specific

25 recollection.



202

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: In your experience,

2 would it be common for the mayor to attend a meeting

3 with a potential supplier?

4

5 (BRIEF PAUSE)

6

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Would it be common

8 in other procurement processes? No. This was -- was,

9 however, sort of a unique -- unique approach at the

10 time.

11 MR. JOHN MATHER: What was unique

12 about the approach at this point in time?

13

14 (BRIEF PAUSE)

15

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It wasn't a

17 traditional design engineer tender project. It was

18 leaning towards the idea of sole sourcing a product.

19 MR. JOHN MATHER: And just to assist

20 you in the chronology as we see it in the documents,

21 the meeting complica -- the meeting contemplated here

22 would have occurred on July 11th, 2012.

23 There's a Council meeting on July 16th,

24 2012, in which Council directs staff to investigate

25 the construction of a single-pad arena and covering



203

1 the outdoor pool with a fabric building.

2 Do you recall if the possibility of a

3 sole source was something that was contemplated before

4 the July 16th, 2012 Council meeting?

5 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't recall that

6 there was any contemplation of the idea that it would

7 be a sole source. At that point in time, it was here

8 is an interesting product that might fulfill our

9 needs.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: So, going back to --

11 to my original question, which was do you know --

12 maybe -- I didn't put it to you this way, but I'll put

13 it to you this way.

14 Do you know why the mayor was at an

15 early meeting with Sprung when they were presenting a

16 product that may be able to address the Town's needs?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That's what

18 salesmen do. They -- I mean, the -- the salesmen want

19 to have the right -- the -- they want to have the key

20 players, the key representatives in their audience

21 when they present their information.

22 MR. JOHN MATHER: I appreciate that

23 might be what Sprung wants. From your perspective, as

24 purchase -- as the manager responsible for purchasing,

25 was it something you thought it was appropriate to



204

1 have the mayor at a meeting with a potential supplier?

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Probably not, but

3 that wasn't in my -- I wasn't asked.

4 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know how it

5 came about that the mayor was at the meeting?


7 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall

8 raising this issue with anyone at the time?


10 MR. JOHN MATHER: You said that you

11 weren't asked whether or not it was appropriate for

12 her to be there. Why would it not be appropriate, in

13 your view, for her to be there?

14

15 (BRIEF PAUSE)

16

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Because it tends to

18 open the door of opportunity for the -- the salesmen

19 to try and influence a potential future sale.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what's -- what's

21 the problem with that?

22

23 (BRIEF PAUSE)

24

25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It's -- well, it's



205

1 -- in government -- in -- in municipal or any

2 government, that's deemed to be interference and

3 inappropriate.

4 MR. JOHN MATHER: And I'm just trying

5 to get a sense of what your understanding was at the

6 time. What -- you know, it's deemed to be

7 interference and inappropriate.

8 From your perspective, what -- what was

9 -- what's the risk of interference? What's the --

10 what's the inappropriateness that -- that can arise?

11

12 (BRIEF PAUSE)

13

14 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: We're talking about

15 the mayor in attendance?

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Yes.

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: So, the mayor, in

18 that case, could be undue influenced and lose their

19 objectivity on the subject.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Was there a risk

21 that also staff members could lose their objectivity

22 or have -- be influenced at this point in time?

23

24 (BRIEF PAUSE)

25



206

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That's a risk.

2

3 (BRIEF PAUSE)

4

5 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I suppose that's

6 why you have the -- the check and the balance.

7 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what's the check

8 and the balance?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Meaning that staff

10 needs to collaboratively come to a conclusion as to

11 what they're going to recommend. And Council then has

12 the opportunity and responsibility to challenge that

13 and ensure that they agree with the recommendation of

14 staff.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: Was there a reason

16 that you didn't raise this potential concern at this

17 point in time in the process?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: With the -- with

19 the group of individuals involved, it wasn't -- in my

20 opinion, it wasn't my place.

21 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what was it

22 about that group of individuals that led you to that

23 conclusion?

24 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Their relative

25 position in the Town management and hierarchy.



207

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: And who are the

2 group of individuals you're referring to?

3

4 (BRIEF PAUSE)

5

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The CAO. Specific

7 to this, the CAO, the mayor, deputy mayor if he was

8 involved.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall if the

10 deputy mayor was involved?

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I -- I don't have a

12 specific recollection of him being at particular

13 meetings.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: Setting -- step --

15 setting aside for a moment the mayor's presence at the

16 meeting, do you recall if you had any concerns at this

17 point in time about having members of staff attend a

18 meeting with a potential supplier in -- and how that

19 may affect that supplier's ability to participate in

20 an RFP down the road or the Town's ability to conduct

21 an RFP when a supplier has already met with members of

22 the Town?

23 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: How did you start

24 out that question? What --

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: Well, it was a long



208

1 question. Do you remember if you had any concern

2 about meeting with a potential supplier at this point

3 in time from a future procurement perspective?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: At this point in

5 time? No, because in my mind, at this point in time,

6 it was an investigative process. It was to learn

7 about the product, learn about the potential,

8 determine if it was something to pursue going forward.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: When, in your mind,

10 did the investigative process when it came to Sprung

11 come to an end?

12

13 (BRIEF PAUSE)

14

15 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Certainly be --

16 before -- before staff were putting their mind to

17 developing the staff report, so.

18

19 (BRIEF PAUSE)

20

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: This was July 11th.

22 And now I could -- I could say maybe by the 1st of

23 August there -- the investigative process should have

24 been done.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: I'm just looking at



209

1 my questions, and I'm moving on to something else. I

2 don't know if now's a good time or if you want to keep

3 going.

4 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: We'll

5 take ten (10) minutes, Mr. McNalty.

6



9


11 understand someone's got some teaching to do, so we'll

12 stop at a quarter to 5:00.

13 MR. RYAN BREEDON: Thank you, Your

14 Honour.

15 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Please

16 give our regards to Mr. Hoffa.

17 MR. RYAN BREEDON: Well, I figured I

18 was in the right seat to raise the issue today, so.

19

20 CONTINUED BY MR. JOHN MATHER:

21 MR. JOHN MATHER: And before we took

22 the break, Mr. McNalty, you had described a meeting

23 that you recall where the Mayor was in attendance.

24 You also described a meeting in which Sprung provided

25 a -- a form of introduction, and at the end of the



210

1 meeting, you were directed to provide Sprung with some

2 additional information so that Sprung could come back

3 with some pricing. Do you recall if that was the same

4 meeting or two separate meetings?

5 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: My recollection

6 would be it would be the same meeting.

7 MR. JOHN MATHER: Could we turn up

8 paragraph 219 of the Foundation Document?

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. JOHN MATHER: This paragraph

13 reflects that on July 16th at 4:04 p.m., Dave MacNeil

14 sent Deputy Mayor Rick Lloyd a link with three (3)

15 budgets to Sprung turnkey structures. You're copied

16 on the email.

17 Do you recall receiving these budgets

18 from Sprung on July 16th?

19 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I recall receiving

20 budgets on conceptual structures.

21 MR. JOHN MATHER: And would you

22 consider what's described here -- does this look like

23 budgets on conceptual structures? We can open them up

24 if it assists.

25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Based on the time



211

1 frame, these would have been preliminary budgets. I'm

2 suspecting that after this date, there was more

3 discussion on what might be included in the individual

4 structures, which would mean the budget would change,

5 but I would think this was preliminary budgets.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know why

7 Sprung sent these preliminary budgets at ths point in

8 time?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I would think as a

10 response to the request in the earlier meeting.

11 MR. JOHN MATHER: Okay. Do you know

12 what was done with the information that was provided

13 by Sprung in these budgets?

14 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't have a

15 recollection at this time.

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: On the same day, and

17 shortly after these emails are sent, there's a Council

18 meeting that I'll have some questions about, but one

19 of the things we see at the Council meeting is there

20 isn't a mention of the fact that Sprung has already

21 provided some preliminary estimates.

22 Do you know why that wasn't raised at

23 the Council meeting?

24 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Did you say there

25 was not a mention?



212

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: Was -- yeah, was

2 not.

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't know why

4 that would be.

5 MR. JOHN MATHER: One of the budgets

6 that is provided is a -- a insulated Sprung structure

7 to cover the existing Centennial Pool.

8 Does that refresh your memory at all

9 about whether there'd been any discussions prior to

10 this about the potential of covering the outdoor pool?

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Well, evidently

12 they were responding to some direction here. In the

13 earlier information that -- that I sent them, was

14 there information there about the pool and Cent -- and

15 Heritage Park, or was it specific to Central Park?

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: One (1) of the items

17 you sent was an aerial photo of Heritage Park.

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: So then that must

19 have been part of the discussion at that time.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know where

21 the idea of potentially covering the pool came from?


23 MR. JOHN MATHER: Prior to the

24 interactions we've been looking at with Sprung in June

25 and July 2012, is that something you were aware had



213

1 been discussed?

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: So thinking about

3 that, I should say that as part of the major

4 redevelopment of Central Park, one (1) of the

5 components of that was a -- a larger indoor pool that

6 would satisfy the needs of the swim club and so on.

7 How that got transferred to covering Centennial Pool

8 with anything, I don't know.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall at any

10 time ever being aware of anyone considering covering

11 the Centennial Pool with any form of structure?

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not that I was

13 aware of.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: So I want to ask

15 some questions now about the July 16th, 2012, Council

16 meeting. One (1) of the documents that is provided to

17 Council at that meeting is a document that sets out

18 various resolutions that the Council can pass with

19 respect to recreation facilities divided into two (2)

20 general directions.

21 One is a direction A, to continue down

22 the road of a multi-use recreation facility and the

23 recommendations of this Central Park Steering

24 Committee, and the other one is direction B, which is

25 identifying new options for exploration. So if we



214

1 could pull up paragraph 233 of the Foundation

2 Document.

3

4 (BRIEF PAUSE)

5

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: And the box on the

7 screen, if we could scroll down, are the direction B

8 options that were in the document I just described.

9 Do you have any recollection of -- of -

10 - of -- of the document I described looking at

11 potential resolutions for Council to pass with respect

12 to recreation facilities?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't believe

14 that I had any involvement in developing it. I may

15 have seen it.

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Looking at the slide

17 in front of you with options 1 to 10, do you know

18 where those options came from?

19

20 (BRIEF PAUSE)

21

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I'm not 100

23 percent, but like, my sense would be that this came

24 from PRC.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: And with respect to



215

1 specifically the options identified, do you know where

2 the PRC got those options or how they generated those

3 options?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Some of them,

5 obviously, because they were topics of discussion,

6 they were part of the work of the Steering Committee

7 and so on. A -- a theatre performing arts centre was

8 another discussion going on maybe not in the

9 community, but in -- well, between the community,

10 staff, Council. It was something I'd heard of before.

11 So my sense is this was an attempt to just list out

12 everything that everybody knew about.

13 MR. JOHN MATHER: Looking at the ten

14 (10) options, were you asked to look into the cost,

15 the feasability, the parameters of any of these

16 options prior to the July 16th meeting?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't believe so.

18 MR. JOHN MATHER: If we could go to

19 paragraph 250.

20

21 (BRIEF PAUSE)

22

23 MR. JOHN MATHER: So we're going to

24 look at -- scroll down to the -- the excerpt from the

25 minutes. This is an excerpt from the minu -- meeting



216

1 minutes. It's similar to the box we looked at, but it

2 shows the result of Council's vote. First question,

3 it says that:

4 "Council directs staff to pursue the

5 following recommended options."

6 Do you know what it was meant by

7 "recommended options"?

8 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The ones with the

9 checkbox.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: So, and we can go

11 back if you want, there wasn't a -- there was no

12 checkboxes when it was presented. Do you know --

13 maybe I'll put it this way. Do you know whose -- who

14 was -- whose recommendation was it for those options,

15 in your understanding?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I believe staff was

17 looking for Council's selection of the options that

18 they wanted to -- that they wanted staff to look

19 further into.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Let me put it this

21 way. Was it the case that these ten (10) options were

22 ten (10) options staff recommended to Council and

23 Council could pick between the recommended options, or

24 is it the case that staff was looking for Council to

25 recommend some of these ten (10) options and it would



217

1 be Council's recommended options, or was it something

2 else?

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think the second

4 one.

5 So I think this was, at least the list

6 was, staff's attempt to list all of the options that

7 were being talked about or were known about and staff

8 was putting them in front of Council to have Council

9 identify which ones they were interested in.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: So we see that one

11 (1) of the options that was selected was enclose

12 outdoor pool with a fabric building.

13 Do you know why a fabric building was

14 identified as the structure for enclosing the pool?

15 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No, I don't.

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Other than what you

17 may have learned in your meetings with Sprung prior to

18 this, which we've discussed, did you know anything

19 else about fabric buildings at this point in time?

20 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: About a Sprung

21 style fabric building, or a fabric building in

22 general? Because I had some background knowledge of

23 what I would call agricultural style fabric buildings.

24 MR. JOHN MATHER: And would that be

25 from the -- the previous research that we talked about



218

1 earlier today?


3 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you say a

4 "Sprung style fabric building," what do you mean by

5 that?

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Extruded aluminum

7 frame with an exterior -- an exterior membrane,

8 insulation, and an interior membrane.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: And I take it from

10 your answer that is something different than the

11 agricultural buildings you were looking at in 2009 and

12 2010?


14 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you recall if

15 prior to this vote happening on July 16th, 2012, that

16 distinction that you've drawn or that description that

17 you've -- you've provided was shared with Council?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: What was the date

19 of the first meeting? The one that was held at the

20 library?

21 MR. JOHN MATHER: June 11th, 2012.

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: So I don't think

23 that staff presented any information on the difference

24 between the types of structures, but they may have

25 learned that on their own from the information that



219

1 was circulated at the meeting.

2 MR. JOHN MATHER: And similarly,

3 Council I take it then might have learned information

4 about Sprung structures about what was circulated at

5 that meeting, is that -- is that fair?


7 MR. JOHN MATHER: Other than what was

8 circulated at that meeting, do you know what other

9 information was provided to Council about Sprung-type

10 fabric buildings prior to July 16th, 2012?

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Nothing that I'm

12 aware of.

13 MR. JOHN MATHER: Prior to Council

14 recommending or voting, directing staff to proceed

15 with these two (2) options, do you know if any work

16 was done to assess the feasibility of putting a

17 Sprung-style fabric structure over the outdoor pool?

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Nothing

19 specifically, other than I think by this point, if I

20 have the timeline correct, I think by this point

21 Sprung had provided the concept that they could do it.

22 MR. JOHN MATHER: So -- and correct me

23 if I'm wrong -- I take it from your answer that Sprung

24 has provided the concept that they could do it, but --

25 and I guess maybe I'll put it this way, my question



220

1 is: Has anyone looked at the pool itself and

2 determined whether or not that's something that could

3 be done? What would be involved in doing that, in

4 placing a Sprung structure on top of the existing

5 pool?

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: There had been no

7 work that I know of that was specific to that. There

8 was an ongoing project, however, to upgrade the

9 existing Centennial Pool, the piping and so forth, the

10 piping, the pump, the filtration and so on.

11 And so there had been work done around

12 the pool, but as far as I know, not specific to

13 covering it with any structure.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you say "there

15 had been work done around the pool," can you just give

16 us a sense of what had been done?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It was in

18 preparation for the wellness centre project that never

19 went forward.

20 But there was some site works done,

21 site grading, essentially, and preparation. There was

22 a contract that was to a pool company that -- I want

23 to say was maybe 40 or $50 thousand to upgrade the --

24 the pump and the filtration and replace the piping

25 around the pool because -- I think because it needed



221

1 to be larger.

2 And those changes were being made in

3 order to bring the pool up to current health

4 standards.

5 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know when

6 that work was done?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It was like, a year

8 before. It would either be 2011 or 2012.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: Prior to Council

10 directing staff to look at the -- or to pursue a

11 project timeline and detailed estimates for enclosing

12 the pool with a fabric building, would you have

13 expected there to have been more work or investigation

14 into the feasibility of that before this decision was

15 made?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think the -- the

17 further investigation would have been warranted more -

18 - more or mostly in light of the scope changes to what

19 this concept was at this date, to what the final

20 concept was -- or what the interim concept was by the

21 time there was a contract to the final contract or to

22 the final concept after everybody had their input and

23 the pool was modified to suit the swim team and the

24 pool was modified or the therapeutic pool was modified

25 and all of those changes were -- certainly warranted



222

1 more detailed investigation.

2 The idea of just putting an enclosure

3 over the existing pool without changing the intent of

4 the pool may not have res -- resulted in the need for

5 a whole lot more investigation.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: I'm going to break

7 some of that down, starting with -- and I -- at this

8 point in time, if the intent is to cover the pool with

9 a Sprung structure, basically put the Sprung on top of

10 it, I take it from your answer you say there may not

11 have needed to be much further investigation.

12 Why -- why not?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Because -- because

14 in it -- in its inception, it was just that, put a

15 cover over the existing pool, not change -- not

16 significantly change the mechanical systems, not

17 signif -- significantly change anything about the

18 existing pool, but just to cover it over.

19 But as the concept evolved, then that

20 changed. And it became -- I think there was always

21 the idea that the existing pool change room building

22 would be taken down and rebuilt inside the enclosure.

23 But in the initial inception, there was

24 -- there wasn't discussion about re -- redoing all the

25 filtration system, all of the -- the chemical systems,



223

1 all the -- all the components of the pool that were

2 already there and existing.

3 At the end of the day, the only thing

4 they really salvaged was the concrete tub. But at

5 this point in time, that wasn't the -- the concept, I

6 guess.

7 And -- and, again, as -- as the concept

8 further developed, the mechanical systems got more

9 involved, the heat recovery systems got more involved,

10 and all of that added up to -- to perhaps the need to

11 question the vi -- the viability of covering that pool

12 or building a new pool beside it, for instance.

13 MR. JOHN MATHER: You've been

14 discussing --


16 before you go on, I just wanted to understand. There

17 was always the idea that the -- that the -- the change

18 room, that would have to be taken down and done again.

19 That was always part of the concept or part of the

20 idea?

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I remember in one

22 (1) of the early -- one (1) of those early meetings

23 that the question was -- the question was asked, it

24 might have been by myself, what are you -- what are

25 you talking about here? Are you saying you're going



224

1 to put a cover over the existing change room, or does

2 that get taken down and built new?

3 And the answer was that gets taken down

4 and built new.

5 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: So --

6 so, in -- in essence then, the idea of putting the

7 membrane over the existing -- just dropping it down

8 over the existing structure was -- and never really on

9 the table because you were always going to redo -- at

10 the very least, you were always going to redo the --

11 the change facilities and -- and the shower, I assume,

12 that goes with that and whatever else the swimmers

13 need in order to prepare, well, I guess, if you're not

14 swimming in a competition, but just in order to go

15 swimming?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yes. And that

17 would be one (1) of the things that came out of one

18 (1) of those early discussions, that -- that intent,

19 so, yes.

20 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: I --

21 I'm sorry. Go ahead.

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: So, I guess, going

23 -- I guess we've started out -- like, at this point in

24 time, the question was about should there be further

25 investigation into the pool.



225

1 And even based on the idea of just

2 changing -- putting new change rooms and that kind of

3 facility inside the new structure is a lot different

4 than making changes to the mechanical systems, the

5 pumping systems, the ability for the pool to meet FINA

6 regulations and so on.

7


9 MR. JOHN MATHER: In terms of the

10 scope of work changes that you're describing that may

11 have warranted further investigation, did any of that

12 -- did the scope of work change prior to August 27th,

13 2012, in a capacity that you thought would have

14 required further investigation?

15 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: My recollection is

16 that all of those -- all of those significant changes

17 that resulted in changes to the design of the -- of

18 what was the concept, they all happened after the

19 contract was signed.


21 but except for the fact that the change room --

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Except for -- ex --

23 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: -- was

24 going to have to be changed?

25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Except for that --



226

1 that fact, that the pool building would be taken down

2 and essentially a new pool building built inside.

3 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Inside

4 the frame. So, someone considering whether dropping

5 the frame on top of the existing structure was -- was

6 viable, there would have been more work that needed to

7 be done around whether or not the new change room

8 would fit satisfactorily, how it would fit and how it

9 would change the design and/or the -- or the structure

10 or the co -- or the -- the improvements that -- that

11 you would have to make to the structure if something

12 like that's going to happen as opposed to just

13 dropping it on top of what's there.

14 Am I -- am I right about that or not?

15

16 (BRIEF PAUSE)

17

18 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The -- the design

19 of what would be put in place to replace the existing

20 pool change rooms and that existing building that was

21 there would have to be done.

22 It would have to fit inside that

23 proposed structure. The proposed structure might have

24 to increase in size by a number of feet to facilitate

25 that.



227

1

2 (BRIEF PAUSE)

3

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: But that's

5 different than changing the intent of the pool and the

6 -- the -- and the intent of the use of the pool.

7 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: You're

8 not changing that because you're not changing the pool

9 at that stage?

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: At that stage,

11 correct.

12 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: But

13 you are changing the change rooms.

14


16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Looking at the

17 direction that Council gave staff at the July 16th

18 meeting, what -- I'm going to start with the arena,

19 and then the pool.

20 What was your understanding that staff

21 was tasked to do in terms of -- what were they going

22 to report back on on August 27th when it come -- came

23 to the pool -- or the arena? Let's start with the

24 arena.

25



228

1 (BRIEF PAUSE)

2

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think the -- in -

4 - in the case of the arena, it would be a comparison

5 of a traditional style bricks and mortar arena to a

6 fabric structure, may or may not be specifically a

7 Sprung fabric structure, but a fabric structure, and

8 that could be phased into a double pad in either case.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: When this resolution

10 was passed on July 16th, was it your understanding

11 that one (1) of the construction types for the arena

12 that was to be investigated was a fabric structure?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That would be the

14 understanding that I had after this meeting, yes.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: And how did you come

16 to form that understanding that fabric would be one

17 (1) of the options?

18

19 (BRIEF PAUSE)

20

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Because of the

22 conversations with Sprung, because of the concepts

23 that they provided, and because of the general

24 interest to pursue that as one (1) of the options.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you say,



229

1 "general interest to pursue that as one (1) of the

2 options," what do you mean by that?

3

4 (BRIEF PAUSE)

5

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The interest -- I

7 guess evidenced by the CAO, and mayor, and the deputy

8 mayor...

9

10 (BRIEF PAUSE)

11

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: ..through the

13 series of meetings and discussions that had gone on.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: So was it your

15 understanding at this point in time that Mr. Houghton

16 was interested in pursuing Sprung buildings?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: As an option.

18 MR. JOHN MATHER: And do you know why

19 he was interested in that?


21 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you ever ask him

22 why?


24 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know what the

25 mayor or deputy mayor's interest was in pursuing



230

1 Sprung buildings?


3 MR. JOHN MATHER: Any reason why you

4 didn't ask Mr. Houghton what his interest was in

5 pursuing Sprung buildings?

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No reason I didn't.

7

8 (BRIEF PAUSE)

9

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Other -- I mean,

11 myself, I could see the merits of the Sprung type of

12 fabric building, not that they're necessarily

13 superior, but they had their own merits.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what were the

15 merits that you saw?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Largely, the

17 simplicity of construction and the insulating value

18 that could be achieved in the basic structure. And we

19 haven't talked about it yet, but the -- the proclaimed

20 LEED equivalency -- LEED silver equivalency of the

21 building.

22 MR. JOHN MATHER: At this point in

23 time, did you have any sense of the LEED potential of

24 a Sprung structure?

25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think it was one



231

1 (1) of the items discussed by the Sprung

2 representatives in the meetings that we'd had to that

3 date.

4 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what you recall

5 they said about LEED in Sprung?

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That the LEED -- or

7 the Sprung building, by its basic design, is a LEED

8 equivalent building, meaning that you could take that

9 building and apply for your LEED certification, and be

10 granted it without any design changes to the building.

11 MR. JOHN MATHER: Was it your

12 understanding that other steps would have to be taken

13 in order to achieve a LEED certification outside of

14 the fact that the building did not require design

15 changes?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Certainly, the --

17 the consulting -- the consulting work to prove it, and

18 the additional commissioning work, again to prove it,

19 because the -- the LEED organization, in order to

20 grant the certification, needs to have all that

21 documentation on the -- on the build.

22 MR. JOHN MATHER: Was it the case that

23 you understood that -- take the pool, for instance,

24 that if a Sprung structure was placed on top of the

25 pool, it would be LEED certified, so long as the



232

1 certification process was pro -- followed?

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That was -- that

3 was what we were told. That was my understanding at

4 the time.

5 MR. JOHN MATHER: And that

6 understanding came from?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Sprung

8 representatives.

9 MR. JOHN MATHER: At that point in

10 time, had you had any experience with LEED buildings?

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Only on the fringe

12 to do with the library building.

13

14 (BRIEF PAUSE)

15

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The majority of

17 that work to achieve LEED -- the LEED certification on

18 the library building was done in the design and during

19 construction and commissioning, but after that point,

20 I took over the building as the facility manager, and

21 so there was additional reporting requirements for

22 years after in order to ensure that the building was

23 performing as it was intended.

24 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did your

25 understanding change at any point in time about the



233

1 notion that a Sprung structure would be capable of

2 being LEED certified, so long as the commissioning

3 process was followed?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It didn't change,

5 no.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you were told

7 that the buildings would be LEED certified, did you

8 verify that or check that with anyone outside of

9 Sprung?

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No. And they

11 wouldn't -- just to clarify, they wouldn't be LEED

12 certified. They would be LEED equivalent.

13 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you check with

14 anyone whether or not to confirm that the Sprung

15 buildings were LEED equivalent?



18 help me with that, though. It -- it doesn't --

19 there's more -- before you get to the LEED

20 equivalency, there's a lot more that has to be done

21 than simply purchasing -- than -- than simply the --

22 the way the structure -- the way the membrane is -- is

23 manufactured?

24 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No, that was --

25 see, that was their claim, which I suppose I don't



234

1 know to be true to -- true or not true to this day,

2 but their claim was that their building, by its basic

3 design, would meet the requirements of a LEED silver

4 certification.

5 So in the case of a library, which is a

6 traditional structural steel building, bricks and

7 mortar, flat roof, in order to take that building to

8 not a LEED silver's certification level, but to a LEED

9 gold certification level, there had to be many, many,

10 many components upgraded or added to that building in

11 order to gain the -- the points that would be required

12 to meet that level of LEED certification, as opposed

13 to the Sprung structure which, by its nature, the

14 claim was that it was LEED capable of that LEED silver

15 certification without any modifications.


17 That was the representation?


19


21 MR. JOHN MATHER: How was that

22 communicated to you?

23 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Verbally, and my --

24 I think it may have been in some of their literature.

25 And there was a -- there was an energy study that they



235

1 provided on one (1) of their buildings. I can't

2 remember specifically what it said, but there was a --

3 a study provided that identified the superior

4 insulation, and particularly the airtightness of the

5 facility that -- that added to the building's

6 efficiency.

7 MR. JOHN MATHER: And just to confirm,

8 other than the statements made by Sprung either in

9 person or in writing, did you do any further

10 investigation into the LEED capabilities of Sprung

11 buildings?


13 MR. JOHN MATHER: Going back to the

14 slide in front of us, begin by asking you what you

15 understood Council direction -- what staff had been

16 directed to do with respect to the arena, and you said

17 compare fabric structure to a bricks and mortar

18 structure.

19 What did you understand staff to have

20 been directed to do when it came to Option 8 and

21 covering the pool with a fabric building?

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: As far as -- as far

23 as what I would have known, the only option there in

24 consideration would have been a Sprung structure.

25 MR. JOHN MATHER: At that point in



236

1 time had you done any research into whether or not

2 Sprung had competitors?


4 time, I can't say.

5 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you understand

6 that staff had been directed to consider other

7 potential construction types for the pool, at least as

8 a means of compars -- comparison to a fabric

9 structure?

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I didn't understand

11 that, no.

12 MR. JOHN MATHER: So with that in

13 mind, what did you understand staff were supposed to

14 do when it came to reporting back on the fabric

15 building?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: A project time line

17 and estimates for Council's consideration.

18 MR. JOHN MATHER: And at that point

19 did you -- did you have an understanding or

20 consideration of how staff would go about determining

21 the time line and estimates, what steps they would

22 take?


24 time, probably not. At that point in time, I don't

25 believe that we were -- I don't believe the intention



237

1 was to go out with a -- go out and get a detailed

2 design and go through a competitive process. I think

3 it was still in the investigative stage where we would

4 do cost comparisons between similarly featured

5 structures, for instance.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you -- can you

7 just explain what you mean by similarly featured

8 structures?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I guess I'm talking

10 specifically about a -- a traditional style, pre-eng

11 building type arena versus a fabric structure, in the

12 case of the arena. In the case of the pool, there was

13 no comparison to be done that I can recall.

14 MR. JOHN MATHER: And I'm just trying

15 to get a sense -- because -- at least as I understand

16 your understanding, there was no comparison to be done

17 -- maybe I'll put it this way.

18 After this resolution was passed, were

19 you -- did you participate in any discussions on what

20 staff was going to do to fulfil the direction to

21 report back on a outdoor pool with a fabric building?

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Specific to the

23 outdoor pool?


25 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No, I don't recall



238

1 any discussions.

2 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you do anything

3 after the July 16th meeting to look into the covering

4 of the outdoor pool with a fabric building?

5 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think at that

6 point I had already provided whatever information I

7 had on Heritage Park and the -- and the existing

8 Centennial pool and the change room facility and so

9 on, so I don't think that I did anything further.

10 At some point we identified the -- the

11 features in a description of what would be in either

12 an arena or a pool as a -- as a basis. I can't recall

13 whether it was before or after this resolution.

14 So specific to the pool again, at some

15 point we made a -- a -- a list essentially, defining

16 what would be included in the pool -- covering the

17 pool.

18 MR. JOHN MATHER: And I believe we'll

19 get to that in a moment.

20 Other than compiling the list of

21 features of the pool, did you have any other

22 involvement in researching or further investigating

23 covering the outdoor pool with a fabric building?

24

25 (BRIEF PAUSE)



239

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: In terms of

2 investigation, no.

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: Council directed

4 staff to report back on -- no -- not later than August

5 27th, 2012.

6 Do you know how that date was selected?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I -- I don't know.


9 formed a view at the time whether that was sufficient

10 amount of time to report back on what you'd been

11 directed to report back on?

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I certainly had a

13 view on that. It was too short of a time line, but

14 that was the time line.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: Why, in your view,

16 was it too short of a time line?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Because of the

18 amount of work that would have to go into satisfying

19 those requirements and -- and being able to put all

20 the information together.

21 MR. JOHN MATHER: When you say that,

22 are you talking about the work of comparing the

23 construction types for the arena?

24

25 (BRIEF PAUSE)



240

1 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Probably, 'cause

2 that's where I could see the biggest amount of work.

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: Any other large

4 amount of work -- work that you were forecasting would

5 be difficult to achieve by August 27th?

6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not that I recall.

7 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you share with

8 anyone your view that this was not enough time to get

9 this done?


11 MR. JOHN MATHER: Any reason why you

12 wouldn't raise that?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Raising it wouldn't

14 change it. That was the -- the date that was provided

15 and so that was the date that we had to work to.

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Why was it the case

17 that you felt that if you raised it, it wouldn't

18 change the date?

19

20 (BRIEF PAUSE)

21

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I guess again it

23 wasn't my place to change the date or to request that

24 the date would be changed.

25



241

1 (BRIEF PAUSE)

2

3 MR. JOHN MATHER: Was -- in -- in your

4 position that you had, if you needed more time when

5 Council imposed a deadline, what was the process for

6 asking more time?

7

8 (BRIEF PAUSE)

9

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The process would

11 be go back to Council and ask for more time, and that

12 seldom happened.

13

14 (BRIEF PAUSE)

15

16 MR. JOHN MATHER: Why did that not

17 happen that often?

18

19 (BRIEF PAUSE)

20

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Because I think --

22 I think that staff's -- staff's desire is to -- to

23 meet the -- meet the expectations of Council as

24 they're given.

25



242

1 (BRIEF PAUSE)

2

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: It's -- it's seldom

4 a -- it's seldom a discussion. It's seldom ki -- or

5 it's mostly one (1) directional in terms of something

6 like a time line.

7 MR. JOHN MATHER: In this instance,

8 did you feel you had any opportunity to express to

9 Council that the time line they had set was tight or

10 you would benefit from more time?

11 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: No, I was not in

12 communication with Council. I was not presenting Coun

13 -- to Council and didn't converse with Council about

14 it.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: Who would converse

16 with Council about the time lines?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That would be at

18 the department head or the CAO's level.

19 MR. JOHN MATHER: In this case, did

20 you have any conversations with any department heads

21 or CAOs -- or the CAO about this time line?



24 before we go on any further, thi -- this motion,

25 that's July the 16th?



243


2 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: So,

3 what -- what's involved with detailed estimates? What

4 -- what do you understand when you're told to go out

5 and get detailed estimates of -- of the cost of

6 enclosing the outdoor pool with a fabric building?

7 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Specific to the

8 pool, and if -- if there were other considerations

9 other than a Sprung building over the pool, then it

10 might involve approaching Sprung, plus the other

11 suppliers, with a design concept to say -- to

12 essentially get a good budget estimate on what this

13 would be worth, not a competition at that point but

14 budget pricing.

15 In the -- a little simpler there, if

16 there was only one (1) manufacturer in consideration

17 at that point and those conversations had kind of

18 already started in terms of what we would -- what the

19 components of the enclosure for the pool would be and

20 what it would cost.

21 So, there would have to be a

22 description of what the -- of what would be included.

23 I would think, in response to that, there would be a

24 conceptual design and there would be a budget estimate

25 that would go along with it that then the Town could



244

1 take and put appropriate contingencies on and say this

2 is what we think it'll cost.


4 And at -- at this stage, July the 16th, a decision has

5 been made to exclude all other kinds of -- of

6 coverings, except the fabric building, all other kinds

7 of buildings have been excluded, as I read that.

8 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That's the way I

9 read it.

10 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: So,

11 would -- would -- in -- in your experience, would that

12 not mean that there would have had to have been some

13 serious consideration of the other -- of the various

14 types of structures that were available and a decision

15 made that the fabric building was preferable before

16 they could get to this recommended option?

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I would agree with

18 that.

19 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Do you

20 need detailed plans to give detailed estimates?

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not at this point.

22 Not -- not...


24 you've got to come back on August twe -- not you

25 personally, but staff have to come back on August 27th



245

1 with details estimates.

2 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: The detailed

3 estimate is not the result of a competitive bid, for

4 instance --


6 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: -- in my mind.

7 It's -- it's -- in traditional construction, it could

8 be an engineer's estimate. So, you go to the

9 engineering consultant and, based on their experience

10 and industry standards, they could come to you with a

11 detailed estimate for a traditional style building.

12 In the case of a fabric building,

13 they're special -- specialized. And the only people

14 that would be able to provide the detailed estimate on

15 a fabric building would be the fabric building

16 manufacturer or somebody connected to them.

17 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Were

18 you under the impression that the only fabric building

19 manufacturer was Sprung?

20 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: They are the only -

21 - they were the only ones that have that robust design

22 and that wouldn't take -- that wouldn't take

23 modifications for a traditional fabric style building

24 to make it suitable.

25 And they were the only one that was



246

1 actively marketing not a fabric building, but a sports

2 facility enclosed by a fabri -- fabric building.

3 So, I could go to one (1) of the

4 agricultural style building suppliers and say can you

5 cover this pool. And they'd say, sure. But what

6 you'd get is an agricultural style building over the

7 pool, the difference being that Sprung's -- Sprung was

8 marketing the whole facility.


10 but this doesn't say Sprung. It just says, "A fabric

11 building."

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Right.

13 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: So --



16 mean, would -- would you -- in your experience, would

17 you have expected then that there would be various

18 fabric building -- detailed estimates for various

19 types of fabric buildings and detailed project time

20 lines for the various fabric buildings that were out

21 there, and then a decision would be made?

22 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That kind of goes

23 back to the earlier investigation into fabric

24 buildings for over the outdoor rink. They wouldn't

25 meet building code requirements for -- for an assembly



247

1 type occupancy like a pool or an arena.

2 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: What

3 do you mean by that?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Under the building

5 code, an assembly type occupancy -- and it provides

6 examples like arena, pool, auditorium, and so on --

7 they have specific -- specific requirements that need

8 to be met, and in our earlier investigation, the

9 agricultural-style buildings that we looked at to

10 cover the existing outdoor rink couldn't meet those

11 building code criteria.

12 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Those

13 are agricultural-style fabric buildings?


15 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Are

16 there --

17 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: And by fabric --

18 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: -- are

19 there other kinds of fabric buildings that are not

20 agricultural style?

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Generally speaking,

22 they'll have a -- a steel structural frame, so like a

23 truss system with a membrane on the outside of the

24 trusses, and that's it.

25 In conversation with suppliers



248

1 previously, my own determination was that they would -

2 - they would put insulation under that membrane if you

3 requested it, but it would be a similar insulation

4 membrane as an older-style pre-engineered building,

5 meaning it would be 2 or 3 inches of fibreglass batt

6 rolled over underneath the membrane, and that was

7 their solution to provide insulation.

8 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: That's

9 the agricultural style. Is that correct?

10 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yes. That was the

11 information that I got from the agricultural-style

12 building suppliers.

13 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Were

14 there other types of fabric buildings that were not

15 agricultural style?

16 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not that I'm aware

17 of. They -- they all fit that same design basis.


19 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: And -- and perhaps

20 agricultural style isn't the right thing to call them,

21 but it's -- it's that simplistic design, which is a

22 steel truss and a membrane. And I -- and I was never

23 aware of any that varied off of that simple design.


25



249


2 MR. JOHN MATHER: Picking up on that,

3 after the July 16th meeting, did you do any research

4 to determine whether or not there was another

5 manufacturer of a fabric building that wasn't

6 agricultural style but met the requirements you saw in

7 Sprung?

8 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: My additional

9 research, I think, was focussed on whether there was

10 anybody else that was marketing a membrane style

11 structure or a fabric structure that was specifically

12 intended to cover sports facilities.

13 MR. JOHN MATHER: And why did you have

14 that focus?

15 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Because I'd been

16 through the other analysis that I just explained, that

17 the other traditional style of fabric buildings would

18 be very difficult, if even possible, to get to that --

19 to get to that place.

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you look to see

21 if anyone had a style of building like Sprung but had

22 used it for applications other than recreation

23 facilities?

24 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I couldn't find any

25 other manufacturers of buildings like Sprung.



250

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: And what did you do

2 to satisfy yourself that there wasn't other

3 manufacturers of buildings like Sprung?

4 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: That was based on

5 my own Internet searches.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: I appreciate it was

7 a while ago. Can you give a sense of what was

8 involved in your Internet searches?

9 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I guess searching

10 on every word combination I could think of to -- to

11 try and come up with something.

12 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you have a sense

13 of how many searches you ran?

14 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think I was -- I

15 was fairly focussed on it for a while, so I probably

16 tried different combinations and searched around for -

17 - for maybe half a day, maybe not continuously, but as

18 a sort of a focus.

19 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you keep a

20 record of your searches or your search results?


22 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know if other

23 staff members were doing searches into whether Sprung

24 had competitors?




251

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you ever ask

2 Sprung if they had any competitors?

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I don't know if I

4 ever asked them that, but I think my sense was that

5 their statement would be that they didn't.

6 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did you ever speak

7 to any other people in any other municipalities who

8 had recently built arenas and -- or pools and asked

9 them what they had looked into?


11 MR. JOHN MATHER: What was your

12 understanding of how many arenas Sprung had

13 constructed at that point in time?

14 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: There was perhaps

15 three (3) or four (4) in Canada and another half dozen

16 or so in the U.S., maybe.


18 reached out to any of those users and asked them about

19 their experience with Sprung or wether they had

20 considered other options?

21 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Not myself.


23 anyone on staff did?


25 MR. JOHN MATHER: So we see after the



252

1 August -- sorry, after the July 16th, 2012, Council

2 meeting, you become involved with WGD in the work that

3 they're carrying out, and you also become involved in

4 the drafting of the staff report that's presented on

5 August 27th, 2012.

6 How did you get assigned to this

7 project?

8 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: To the project

9 overall?

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: To the work of

11 working with WGD and then working on the staff report.

12 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I -- I don't -- I

13 don't believe that anybody said, This is your

14 assignment and these are your tasks. I think because

15 of my -- because of me being invited to the early

16 meetings with Sprung, it was sort of an assumption

17 that I would carry on and do work towards not only --

18 not only early meetings with Sprung, but I guess at

19 the same time I was -- I had become involved in the --

20 the report from the Central Park Steering Committee,

21 not directly, but in looking at the options and

22 helping to figure out how that would play out in the

23 whole Central Park scheme. And so based on all that,

24 nobody assigned me to be involved. I just stayed

25 involved.



253

1 MR. JOHN MATHER: Do you know why you

2 were invited to the initial Sprung meetings?

3 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: I think because of

4 my facility -- facility manager role, because I had --

5 because these were facilities being talked about and I

6 had access to facility information on existing

7 facilities and so on, and maybe because I was already

8 involved in the outcome of the Steering Committee

9 report to some extent.

10 MR. JOHN MATHER: Did anyone explain

11 that to you, or is that something that you -- you

12 gleaned based on what you'd already been working on?

13 MR. DAVE MCNALTY: Yeah. Nobody

14 explained that at all.

15 MR. JOHN MATHER: Your Honour, I

16 believe the union had suggested we shut down at this

17 point in the day.

18 THE HONOURABLE FRANK MARROCCO: Is

19 Friday 9:00 convenient for everybody?

20 MR. JOHN MATHER: Thursday, Your

21 Honour.


23 sorry. Thursday at 9:00? Right.

24

25 --- Upon adjourning at 4:45 p.m.



254

1

2

3

4 Certified Correct,

5

6

7

8 ____________________

9 Wendy Woodworth, Ms.

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

INQUIRY re COLLINGWOOD 09-24-2019 of 315

$

$34 135:19

$35 6:10

22:13,2471:17132:22133:2,9134:14,22135:19150:6,14152:9154:23

$50 220:23

$6 163:11

$7,392

105:14

$8 146:1

$9

163:7,22,24 164:25

0

0 152:11

000010

136:16

1

1 18:10

25:727:2136:13,2342:1144:8,956:5,2557:21,22,24 74:1892:1108:24111:3113:7,14,21,24114:4,7119:20120:11,16121:15,16124:1125:10130:25

131:2,17134:18137:1140:1,10142:10143:19145:12146:12,16153:18156:20158:24161:7163:17180:18181:17192:15200:14201:11,22212:16213:4,16214:17217:11223:22224:17,18228:11,17,24 229:1231:1235:1242:5243:16246:3

1/2 50:24

55:1456:19

1:00 34:1

10 78:4

187:4209:5214:17215:14216:21,22,25

10:58 78:9

100 214:22

107 3:8

109 3:9

11:00

84:20

11:06

78:10

11:56

117:5

11th 12:22

14:1415:216:2417:518:16,2420:2122:1823:1124:1127:5,12,13 28:1329:533:2453:1854:371:2174:1875:14188:16196:15,18200:24201:4202:22208:21218:21

12 41:15

12,000

105:1

12,300,000

105:2106:8

12:00

84:20

12:04

117:6

12:58

159:14

1234 44:10

12th 6:23

32:1987:1288:18

157:17158:4

14 148:10

153:4

140 13:6

143 24:20

28:6

14th 29:24

30:2531:1489:490:20157:21158:16

15

148:7,8,10 153:4

157 3:10

1581 4:3

1582 4:4

1583 4:5

1584 4:6

1585 4:7

1586 4:8

1587 4:9

1588 4:10

1589 4:11

159 3:13

1590 4:12

1591 4:13

1592 4:14

1593 4:15

1594 4:16

16 151:12

166 157:25

158:11

16th 28:25

29:638:1843:7,14,20 44:350:11

53:18,1954:366:2,967:569:1570:8,1773:2375:8,1576:21202:23203:4210:13,18213:15215:16218:15219:10227:17228:10238:3242:25244:4249:3252:1

175 197:5

177 195:21

197:21

17th 43:15

64:18,21

193 6:7

194 6:17

19th

197:15

1st 208:22

2

2 5:24

10:2519:436:9,1237:17,2347:1,2548:3,4,1449:1850:2455:1456:1976:588:17


101:10108:25111:3117:1120:21124:16,18125:11131:2137:2140:9143:17,22,24145:10146:11,19158:14162:22163:16171:13185:20190:18213:19219:15248:5

2:01

159:15

20 120:3,7

154:24

2000

120:20126:6128:3

2000/01

151:21

2000s

147:24

2001

120:20126:6

2009 160:9

167:3187:4189:8191:4218:11

2009/2010

187:13190:23

201 200:20

2010

111:20113:1114:17,20149:22152:18189:8190:17191:4218:12

2010/2013

110:25

2011 149:2

221:8

2012 16:24

49:778:2085:14100:11107:14148:10149:2157:17,21158:4,16162:23166:24168:2,18171:15173:10174:15176:7,16,23 177:11178:2181:16182:7188:16191:3194:11195:6,12,23196:12,18197:15200:24201:4202:22,24203:4212:25213:15

218:15,21219:10221:8225:13239:5252:1,5

2013

148:10149:22

2014 89:19

151:9

2016

151:10,11

2017

151:12

2019 1:23

151:13

20-plus

152:23

20th

190:17

21 46:25

47:5,793:11,20

219 210:8

21st

47:11,13,1548:8,10,2249:2,6,1350:1,395:11

22 71:1

22nd 50:4

97:22

23 71:1

122:12

233 214:1

23rd 50:4

97:16,2298:16

24 122:12

123:6

243 145:10

24th 1:23

49:2 50:478:2079:1380:497:16,2298:16105:5

250 215:19

254 3:19

25th 39:18

46:1360:663:19195:22196:12

26th 51:7

27th

39:23,2440:4 45:650:8 51:353:3,2455:1656:161:1762:15,16,20 63:266:10,1870:3 73:985:1492:25104:11107:14194:11,24195:6,12225:12227:22239:5240:5244:25252:5

29th

61:11,15,24 62:2563:22

3

3

45:5,6,11,13,2246:249:1976:5137:23138:2,7,24 150:13153:6166:7173:23200:1210:14248:5251:15

3:20 209:7

3:31 209:8

30 115:7

138:4

30-$40

143:25

30,000-

foot

113:9

33

147:13,14,15

34

132:13,22133:2,9134:14,22150:6152:9

35 21:1,21

22:125:1626:4132:13

39

44:18,19

3P

143:12,23144:8146:7152:15


4

4 3:3

61:16111:18,19,24137:24138:2,25150:13151:18251:15

4,000

130:15

4:04

210:13

4:45

253:25

40 220:23

471 107:22

4-year

153:5

5

5 45:6

117:2125:14150:13151:14156:4178:22

5:00

209:12

5th 100:11

101:3

6

6 3:7

69:15125:15

6.7

178:22,23179:25

6th 46:18

7

7 117:12

145:3148:14

7,632,000

99:25

72 40:24

41:13,22

74 146:2

7th

46:17,23,25 47:948:1150:3

8

8 153:13

154:25235:20

80s 162:25

83 165:25

84 165:23

9

9 146:4

153:13154:21,25

9:00

5:9,13253:19,23

9:15 5:1

90s 147:24

162:2,9163:6,7

94 41:22

97 1:19

A

a.m 5:1

78:9,10

ability

71:10133:10207:19,20225:5

able 7:2

30:13

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abouts

111:22

absence

55:656:1957:959:1464:19,2065:4174:10

absences

49:2550:2,4

absent

95:3

absolute

152:23

absolutely

33:638:1462:20,2569:1677:2282:283:18128:11

acceptable

142:21

access

148:20253:6

accordance

175:18

176:9

accurate

54:19108:3111:13124:5134:16,25136:2168:21

achieve

176:3231:13232:17240:5

achieved

27:10,11129:6230:18

acknowledg

e 56:17

59:1190:7

acquisitio

n 180:8

acronym

132:12

across

110:6

act 139:8

153:8

acted

169:10

acting

28:6183:10185:5

action

19:18

active

127:8134:13147:4

actively

246:1

activities

169:13

actual

169:18

actually

121:8,9123:2130:12141:23,24147:4

add 7:16

169:7

added

125:18140:12223:10234:10235:5

addition

139:19140:8143:6

additional

24:3210:2231:18232:21249:8

address

50:21120:8127:1203:16

addressed

178:16192:3193:5

addressing

24:15

adequate

169:3

adequately

168:24

adjourning

253:25

adjust

102:4


adjusted

101:25

adjustment

s 106:17

administra

tion 12:9

38:5148:1

adopted

121:7

advertisin

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advice

177:12183:19

advise

45:4184:3

advised

94:195:25

advising

79:10139:7

advisory

125:18183:15

aerial

196:5,7197:22212:17

affect

60:6,2463:20207:19

affected

60:4,7,1664:7

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159:23

afterwards

7:19

aged 142:3

agenda

9:11

36:1141:19

aging

142:13

ago 70:19

71:17110:15117:12148:7,9151:18250:7

agreed

42:14122:21

agreements

147:11

agricultur

al 101:16

217:23218:11246:4,6247:20248:9,15,20 249:6

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187:5191:16,18247:9,13248:11

ahead

78:13106:13157:5224:21

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189:11,19

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187:7

airtightne

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allegation

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alleged

61:16

63:19

allegedly

60:5,16

Allow 34:5

allowed

75:20,2381:7

alluded

134:1

alluding

146:12

ally 11:4

Almas 79:9

95:10,20120:5137:1,3,18,22139:14

alone

146:16,22

alongside

85:6

already

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alternativ

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76:2477:13

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218:6

am 75:18

95:14101:22111:7165:10226:14

Amaizeingl

y

160:14,17,22161:16162:4

ambient

101:14

amendments

84:19

amenities

163:9

Ameresco

133:17,18,19,21,23,24134:3,13,20 135:4

amiss 59:4

AMO 144:23

among

23:22

amongst

137:3

amount

19:3126:9132:16140:13173:14239:10,18240:2,4

amounts

128:19

analysis

249:16

and/or

180:8226:9

Andrea

2:15 49:6156:15

announceme

nt 161:3

annual

102:5

answer

11:1025:2352:2058:1460:1068:2481:2108:19111:7148:16164:17186:20193:7194:6199:1218:10219:23222:10224:3

answered

60:1184:2155:11

answering

134:19153:17

answers

193:11,18

anxious

9:8

anybody

136:4249:10252:13

anyone

170:20175:5193:11,15195:11,16200:6204:8213:10220:1233:8,14240:8249:21251:23253:10


anything

45:363:1467:1268:11,2569:1291:18,2394:14143:18151:14156:5172:8182:22183:23194:22213:8217:18222:17238:2,9

anyways

143:1

apologize

102:1108:4111:4124:18159:1

appea 69:6

appear

18:3,2319:820:1923:2 31:564:775:1289:1699:23104:24

APPEARANCE

S 2:1

appeared

18:16

appears

6:16 9:1210:3 17:918:722:1225:7,14,1

5 28:531:832:1638:1141:5,1142:546:1260:2464:1865:9 69:673:2284:17,2091:1995:1896:2197:15100:18156:25

applicatio

ns 249:22

applied

121:9167:6174:6175:7

apply

180:15231:9

appointed

120:22

appreciate

9:18102:18127:3142:6153:3,12155:3,7156:11203:22250:6

appreciate

d 156:14

approach

10:4 58:160:7 64:772:7 92:3126:19151:2

202:9,12

approached

127:18172:7

approaches

27:1691:20

approachin

g 243:10

appropriat

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81:17,19,23 83:1696:13,25203:25204:11,12244:1

appropriat

eness

143:13

approval

173:6,16

approve

173:14

approved

133:9134:23173:16

approximat

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89:13,1890:7

approximat

ely 90:1

aquatic

25:6141:23143:6

aquatics

111:9143:3152:25155:23

architectu

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105:13

architectu

re 166:3

area 39:11

78:5112:7184:4

areas

38:22144:9

aren 86:20

arena

19:2321:3,23,24 74:2585:25105:13109:2111:9155:23187:14189:10,17,22190:19,24196:7199:8,9202:25227:18,23,24228:4,5,11 235:16237:11,12238:12239:23247:1,6

arenas

147:25149:9251:8,12

arguably

112:14114:8

argue

73:15

argument

98:10

argument's

120:7

arise

205:10

arisen

6:1691:19

arising

24:10

Armstrong

124:24125:12126:8

arrangemen

t 58:3

article

6:9,17,237:1

arts 215:7

aside

207:15

aspect

81:13143:6

assembled

107:17

assembly

246:25247:5

assertion

20:2074:4

assess

219:16

assessing

182:19

assessment

s 145:16

assign

82:15

assigned

37:2338:2139:11252:6,24


assigning

82:2183:24

assignment

252:14

assist

27:19,2230:25104:19109:4161:11164:6,10169:12,23,24170:13183:15202:19

assistance

128:9169:15

assisted

124:25

assisting

197:11

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49:774:13210:24

Associate

1:7 2:4

associated

66:24

Associatio

n 144:24

assume

59:22125:8126:5,9,14 128:18224:11

assumed

81:15

assuming

22:11

assumption

252:16

Attached

36:9

attempt

50:2059:1460:23102:4215:11217:6

attempting

11:5 29:450:6176:13

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115:14144:22202:2207:17

attendance

196:24,25205:15209:23

attended

131:2185:1189:3

attendees

192:10201:19

attending

188:25192:2197:14201:21

attention

32:9118:14,21158:20

AUDIBLE

58:8

audience

203:20

auditor

145:11,13,24

auditorium

247:6

August

39:18,2440:4 45:646:16,19,23,2547:5,9,11,1348:8,11,23 49:2250:1,3,551:3,853:2455:1656:1 60:661:11,15,17,2363:19,2266:10,1870:3 73:978:2085:1492:2593:11,2095:1097:2398:17104:11105:5107:14111:20112:14128:2194:11,24195:6,12208:23225:12227:22239:4240:5244:24,25252:1,5

authored

42:9

authority

131:14,16,19173:14

authorizat

ion

180:11,23181:2,8,12,19

authorized

180:14

authors

56:657:1,21,24

available

19:24149:24150:6152:11154:23171:15177:17186:2188:22244:14

average

142:4,5

award

169:20

awarded

172:15

aware

100:10112:9,13140:20144:21147:7150:9,11,16,17186:25187:15212:25213:10,13219:12248:16,23

away

45:4,10,13,2246:15,22,24 48:2149:2253:7

55:1459:1280:2293:2294:2137:7155:15,18

B

background

150:25165:9196:2217:22

Backing

180:21

balance

206:6,8

ball 22:10

based

11:1828:896:18111:7126:14127:21131:13132:1135:24140:17145:18153:6158:17178:13184:18210:25225:1245:9250:4252:23253:12

basic

173:8230:18231:7234:2

basically

25:19


222:9

basis

72:10101:12162:7185:17191:1193:9238:12248:17

batt 248:5

became

59:12110:20147:7148:20158:25161:2,5,21 171:3183:9185:5187:15191:3222:20

become

120:6134:4,13152:14252:2,3,19

becoming

186:25

beg 156:19

begin

235:14

beginning

62:8160:24

behalf

119:13134:25

behave

64:2

believe

10:2012:8 16:426:20

37:4 41:743:1644:1948:2 56:559:1860:865:2072:3,781:1182:1985:2494:2197:2111:12115:16,23121:7133:23134:3,25154:18187:19188:2190:25192:6196:20198:5199:3,24214:13215:17216:16236:25238:18252:13253:16

believed

66:23

believes

7:2

benefit

8:14136:7178:14242:10

benefits

66:24142:12,14198:19

beside

223:12

best 7:5

9:20 12:827:1766:2270:481:25122:4124:12153:14

better

14:1930:633:1989:22125:2132:2152:22176:5

beyond

121:8138:15142:13148:10

bid 162:16

169:18,19170:14245:3

biggest

240:2

Bill 2:17

109:17

billion

146:1

bit 9:12

14:115:1322:1725:1333:1334:4 51:152:261:2065:486:1796:6111:1118:9132:2140:17

144:12145:4149:4150:25179:24

bite 19:10

bites

19:11

BLT 2:17

blunter

145:14

board 17:3

125:18127:13135:11

body

183:15

Bonwick

2:7 3:98:13,21109:20,24,25110:1,4111:14,19,23112:4,13,21,25113:7,15,17114:6,12,22,25115:4,14,18,23116:1,7,15,16,20117:8,9,21,22118:1,8,13119:10,24120:16121:5,14,23122:8,17,19123:3,9,10,24124:6,14,

20125:4,20126:2,4,13127:2,23128:2,7,11,14,15,22129:4,10,17,23130:5131:9,22132:8,9,21133:7,15,19,24134:12,20135:1,18136:12,21138:23139:15140:1,6141:6,11,17,20142:16143:9144:5,7,19 145:9146:15,18,21,25147:18,21148:6,23,24149:19,22150:3,11,18,22152:2,6153:18,22154:3,9,12,20155:9,13156:3,8,9

book

115:19,24116:6

bother

124:8

bottom

25:132:25


33:735:1136:741:2151:1861:693:1899:13103:9,17104:25151:4

box 119:18

214:6216:1

breach

138:9

break

129:11159:11209:22222:6

breakfast

117:11

breath

152:17

Breedon

2:14209:13,17

Brian 6:23

7:25 9:2212:1182:1783:4,10,11 124:17125:23

bricks

26:15228:5234:6235:17

bridges

148:1149:7,13

brief 5:16

6:2013:9,1424:23

28:729:15,2130:1532:1233:10,1534:8,13,24 35:639:3,1343:2244:14,2346:1048:1851:2259:8 61:363:1064:14,2365:1666:2069:2171:376:1777:2578:2479:580:2481:9 85:993:1599:7103:1,11106:21109:11,22112:11113:5114:14116:23117:19118:6,11136:10,19138:21139:24140:4144:17145:7150:20160:1161:24162:13163:4,14164:20165:6,21166:9

167:10172:10179:12,18181:5,21182:13183:21184:13,23185:10,24190:14201:6,16202:5,14204:15,23205:12,24206:3207:4208:13,19210:10214:4,20215:21226:16227:2228:1,19229:4,10230:8232:14238:25239:25240:20241:1,8,14,19242:1

briefed

121:24

bring

8:14,2013:616:1940:2392:23105:15113:20136:15144:19147:1,3,12,13,14150:23158:20169:8221:3

bringing

142:20194:23

broad

147:24148:2,9

brochures

187:21,25188:1,22

brought

92:18114:17120:25123:17129:25130:1,3139:9140:7186:21

bubble

189:13

bucks 26:5

budget

71:8133:9175:2,4198:10,11,14,24211:4243:12,14,24

budgets

210:15,17,20,23211:1,5,7,13 212:5

build

164:13231:21

building

31:1967:1799:24101:17,18143:19163:8187:5189:25190:9

191:16,18,22193:9,20,24194:5,7,10,17,18,19,23195:1,11,17 203:1217:12,13,21 218:4221:12222:21223:12226:1,2,20230:12,21231:7,8,9,10,14232:12,18,20,22234:2,6,7,10235:21236:15237:11,21238:4,23243:6,9244:6,15245:11,12,15,18,23246:1,2,4,6,11,18,25247:4,11248:4,12249:5,21

buildings

26:13148:1158:14163:9165:13166:6,21183:2194:25217:19,23218:11219:10229:16230:1,5


232:10233:7,15235:1,11244:7246:19,20,24247:9,13,19 248:14249:17,25250:3

building's

235:5

built

151:14194:2224:2,4226:2251:8

Bulletin

7:1910:11,12

bundle

153:2

Bush 18:13

19:23

business

39:6119:16137:20138:11183:25

buzzword

16:11

bylaw

170:17,19,21171:2,13172:2,4,14173:23,24174:4,16175:6,9,10,18,24176:10177:7178:6,17,19,21179:4,9

181:16,24182:7

C

calendar

49:5200:23

calibre

138:25

calming

147:20

Cambridge

151:7156:4

camp 9:5

11:21

campaign

9:1211:20152:20

campaigns

112:16

camps

123:25

camp's

7:22 11:6

Canada

110:6251:15

Canadian

144:25

CAO 28:6

77:1982:2183:4,15,17168:4,7,12 175:12181:12,19182:3,4183:10,12,15,18184:8185:5,7186:18198:5,7207:6,7

229:7242:21

CAOs

242:21

CAO's

242:18

capabiliti

es 84:10

235:10

capable

180:25233:1234:14

capacity

156:25185:7225:13

capital

148:20149:6

career

63:25

carry 5:13

252:17

carrying

252:3

cars

168:23

case 18:3

38:1143:498:15110:23189:19205:18216:21,24228:4,8231:22234:5237:12240:16242:19245:12

cause

240:1

cautious

146:7

Cent

212:14

Centennial

31:16,19212:7213:7,11220:9238:8

central

7:1,2110:2411:1416:2536:9,1274:2481:2192:193:24196:8212:15213:4,23252:20,23

centralize

91:20,24

centralizi

ng 92:3

centre

140:21,22,24141:1,5142:9,20215:7220:18

cents

25:20

CEO 167:23

cer 115:6

ceremony

87:1115:6,11157:12,14,17,23158:5

certain

21:1839:20

65:9 83:9144:9185:2

certainly

51:2063:2095:20113:20120:14131:11135:21137:7176:4,11,17 181:23192:14197:19201:9,13208:15221:25231:16239:12

Certificat

e 3:19

certificat

ion

231:9,13,20232:1,17234:4,8,9,12,15

certified

231:25233:2,7,12 254:4

cetera

14:3 30:239:752:19,22100:8

Chadwick

21:11

chain

32:2434:6,20

chair 71:8

125:6,7

chairperso


ns 128:23

chairs

126:5,6135:3

challenge

206:12

challenges

151:1,12,13

Chambers

1:18

champion

76:23

championin

g 77:12

chance

115:19

change 7:3

139:17,19150:1162:10168:1178:11185:7211:4222:15,16,17,21223:17224:1,11225:2,12,21226:7,9,20 227:13232:25233:4238:8240:14,18,23

changed

104:6130:13222:20225:24240:24

changes

221:2,18,25

225:4,10,16,17231:10,15

changing

143:10151:15,16222:3225:2227:5,8,13

charge

53:20

charged

161:8

charts

39:8

check

206:6,7233:8,13

checkbox

216:9

checkboxes

216:12

chemical

222:25

Chenoweth

2:11 3:75:14,18,256:4,5,227:148:4,8,11,23,259:3,4,1710:8,1611:3,11,2312:10,2113:1,4,11,16,21,2514:12,1715:10,2116:7,10,1417:8,13,18,2418:9,1919:1,14,2

120:1,12,23 21:9,2022:3,1623:2,7,2024:9,18,2525:11,2526:7,12,23 27:3,2428:4,18,2229:2,9,13,17,2330:9,10,19,2331:4,8,11,1232:2,8,14,18,2233:3,6,12,18,22,2334:1,5,15,1935:3,10,13,14,2036:1,6,16,20,2337:1,5,19,2538:10,2539:5,1540:2,15,19 41:942:1,2,1743:3,12,1844:1,6,9,11,16,1745:2,9,1946:5,12,2147:6,17,18,21,2448:5,7,13,2049:9,10,20,2450:1851:5,20,24

52:5,7,11,1453:1,6,9,1554:1,6,11,2455:12,2156:10,1457:2,11,14,2558:6,10,23,2459:6,10,2460:3,13,20 61:5,2262:1,2263:7,12,1864:5,10,1665:1,8,14,18 66:667:2,9,19,2368:3,5,8,15,20,2369:3,10,11,17,2370:6,11,16,2471:5,672:17,2273:1,4,1774:7,10,15,1675:19,2276:7,15,1977:3,9,17,2378:1,6,13,15,1679:1,7,18,2280:3,10,14,1981:3,6,2482:3,11,2483:2,7,14

,1984:3,7,8,13,16,2485:2,7,1186:4,8,23,2487:6,10,14,2088:1,2,10,16,2190:3,12,15,2491:3,10,16,1792:4,12,15,1793:4,10,17 94:1695:1,796:4,8,1997:4,1398:2,6,14,22,2399:4,9,10,22 100:3101:1,6102:3,8,13,17,20,21103:4,7,13,18104:8,9,14,23105:9,23106:5,18,23 107:2123:17136:13

Chenoweth'

s 8:19

Chief 1:7

138:4

chirped

97:19

choices

143:25

choose

134:15

chosen


82:6,15124:16

chronologi

cally

116:17153:20

chronology

202:20

church

154:5

circulate

170:5

circulated

13:17187:22,25219:1,4,8

circulatin

g 28:1

188:1

circumstan

ces 80:21

143:14178:2,23179:1,2180:1

city 12:23

127:16130:8,12,19,23

civil

165:12

CJI 44:6

CJI0006146

40:22

CJI0011234

4:5

CJI0011242

4:13147:2

CJI0011243

4:12144:20

CJI0011244

4:14150:24

CJI0011245

4:11140:7

CJI0011247

4:10

CJI11234

44:570:23

CJI11247

117:17

claim

233:25234:2,14

Claire

6:24 7:24124:17125:6,24130:25

clarified

43:13

clarify

27:566:13141:1150:4233:11

clarity

27:6,8,9,11,14,19,2229:5,1146:7131:24

classrooms

140:23

clear

19:1723:531:2435:1553:2 55:759:1265:2067:1498:17104:4128:6

139:4153:16200:11

clearer

158:25

clearly

9:7 16:619:1271:2075:25149:5158:24,25159:3

clerk

172:24177:3,8180:9,23181:1,8,12,18,19186:13

Clerk's

169:16

client

68:24

Clippers

141:14

closely

54:1655:5,16

closure

161:6

clouds

110:21

club 213:6

co 125:5,6

226:10

co-chair

129:12135:9

co-chairs

10:25124:16,18129:2

code 139:6

189:25190:10

193:9,20194:5,19195:1246:25247:5,11

Colborne

147:5

collaborat

ive 14:7

184:16

collaborat

ively

206:10

colleague

84:21

colleagues

112:5

collective

ly 139:1

154:14

College

165:18

Collingwoo

d

1:2,17,202:13107:12120:2,6121:19122:3126:17127:7,9,13129:7,15131:4132:17,20,23133:12134:6135:10151:1,21160:5

Collus

167:23

combinatio

n 250:10

combinatio

ns 250:16

combustibi

lity

191:21

comes

22:1144:252:2055:13,1656:16104:25141:23172:13193:25

comfortabl

e 40:10

62:3128:12

coming

22:1789:7,9131:4144:20157:16158:15175:2,5

commencing

5:1

comment

14:2115:1817:19,2518:1119:4,1521:1127:4 30:651:666:1167:10,11,24 69:2477:8 88:898:25108:22144:14145:4157:11,20,24158:18


commented

6:9137:21

commenting

72:12

comments

7:1,17,248:3,1014:23,2515:16,2317:1418:2120:2022:6 25:427:2539:1644:2045:170:12,2572:1474:4,1775:1576:2087:1688:3100:12,21101:21,23109:9143:12

commission

110:10119:11141:9

Commission

er 74:13

commission

ing

231:18232:19233:2

commitment

128:16

commitment

s 43:9

60:2138:9

committee

9:7 10:24

11:14,1614:915:1416:3 41:542:1256:17,18,2257:4,6,858:2,17,1959:2,3,2274:12120:23121:6124:10,16125:15,18126:7,15,23127:1,14128:17,20,24129:14,21134:2135:3,6,12,17136:5183:8213:24215:6252:20253:8

committees

38:22

common

147:20202:2,7

commonly

171:21

commu

142:1

communicat

e 185:15

communicat

ed 234:22

communicat

ion 11:2

64:1136:16

242:12

communitie

s 131:18

152:15

community

21:6118:22119:7120:9123:19,20125:9126:1135:20136:8137:6,11,25142:2,9147:5151:3,16,24154:1,6155:1215:9

company

133:16220:22

compare

235:17

compared

185:7

comparing

101:13239:22

comparison

228:4236:8237:13,16

comparison

s 237:4

compars

236:8

competing

121:16123:18

competitio

n 167:6

224:14

243:13

competitiv

e 165:1

178:4,24179:4,10180:1237:2245:3

competitor

s 236:2

250:24251:2

compile

96:13

compiling

27:20238:20

complement

ed 5:20

complete

58:12

completed

51:7

completely

37:4 39:8

completion

97:23

complica

202:21

complied

194:25

comply

175:24

components

213:5223:1234:10243:19

comprehens

ive 40:8

120:24

compressed

-air

189:13

compromise

137:9

con 180:6

concentrat

e 74:5

concept

81:1491:18,24198:10,23219:21,24221:19,20,22222:19223:5,7,19 225:18243:11

concepts

26:19228:22

conceptual

210:20,23243:24

concern

15:5,721:1,4,1522:2425:2050:11,1371:7,9,2274:1182:13114:1123:11136:17137:17139:9206:16208:1

concerned

12:5,1821:2129:1139:9 42:343:1050:982:5,9,12,1494:7,23155:15


concerns

12:1826:445:17101:9192:17193:5207:16

concl

45:23

conclude

28:1745:23

concluded

37:873:24,25198:21

conclusion

59:18,2175:11206:10,23

conclusion

s 25:8

concrete

119:22223:4

conditions

180:6,15

conduct

139:6171:15180:7207:20

conducted

194:10

Conestoga

165:18

confer

5:6,10

conference

s 144:22

confidence

138:3

confirm

45:1289:12

90:6 98:5109:3,6112:25139:10147:16,21,22191:14197:3233:14235:7

confirmati

on 138:12

confirming

148:25

conflict

135:16

conflictin

g 40:13

conflicts

135:4,7

confused

87:4127:3149:2158:23

confusing

40:21

connected

245:16

consensus

22:17184:18

conservati

on

130:22,23131:14,16,18

conservati

sm 152:20

consider

122:22152:10155:20187:1191:4210:22

236:6

considerab

le 128:19

considerat

ion 28:9

134:10142:8143:7153:23235:24236:17,20243:16244:13

considerat

ions 93:3

199:10243:8

considered

37:16134:10251:20

considerin

g 142:8

213:10226:4

consistent

20:7

consistent

ly 174:6

constituen

ts 153:10

155:5

constructe

d 251:13

constructi

ng 161:12

constructi

on 2:17

26:18133:2,12143:8144:25164:14165:10166:25190:6

202:25228:11230:17232:19236:7239:23245:7

consultant

130:20131:1,17164:10245:9

consultant

s 120:24

179:16

consulted

131:16195:11

consulting

119:4131:13178:10179:15231:17

contact

85:12,1590:1191:2492:8140:21,24141:1142:8,19168:5185:6

contacting

90:17,2191:21

contacts

79:19

contained

172:14

contemplat

ed 201:4

202:21203:3

contemplat

es 180:22

200:21

contemplat

ion 203:6

CONTENTS

3:1

contested

113:23

context

51:13,1987:2389:22104:5

contingenc

ies 244:1

continue

79:11118:2,3178:25213:21

continued

3:6 6:39:3 31:1133:2235:1342:144:1647:1749:958:2369:1071:574:1578:1584:786:2388:191:1698:2299:9102:20104:8117:8,21123:9128:14132:8148:23158:9168:11


191:8209:20225:8227:15234:20249:1

continuing

152:12

continuous

ly 250:17

contract

141:5164:16220:22221:21225:19

contractor

164:13

contractor

s 169:8

contracts

162:17

contributi

on 85:3

contributo

r

57:12,16,23 59:3

contributo

rs 41:12

42:2158:18

convenient

253:19

conversati

on 16:2

40:1442:857:1858:2160:1561:1663:1964:4,687:589:10157:17

172:21,22195:14,25196:10247:25

conversati

ons 89:24

138:17139:2195:16228:22242:20243:17

converse

242:13,15

convince

7:2

convoluted

151:15

Cooper 2:9

52:15107:11200:25

copied

10:2112:1798:1,12197:12210:15

copy 11:1

40:21108:11117:13170:19

copying

12:1231:15197:7

corporate

138:19164:3,6

corporatio

n 162:9

174:7

correct

8:512:24,2513:3,20,2

4 14:1615:9,2016:9,1317:5,12,16,1718:18,2520:10,1121:18,1922:2 23:125:1026:6,11,16 28:3,2129:1,8,1232:735:19,2536:537:2238:1942:22,2443:848:11,1249:3,11,23 51:453:4,5,8,2554:5,2255:11,2056:1357:9,10,13 60:262:2163:464:9,2565:770:5,10,15 76:1477:279:17,18,2180:2,13,18 84:2385:1,2187:8,1392:9100:1109:9111:21112:18,24113:3114:18115:13

122:11128:21134:8160:6,7,15 164:18179:7183:5199:1,21219:20,22227:11246:14248:9254:4

corrected

108:13

correspond

ence 11:2

78:19,21

cost 53:11

71:13,2399:24114:2119:17140:11145:18198:12215:14237:4243:5,20244:2

costing

53:1181:14

costs

71:1086:2 90:199:15,17102:5

Coun

242:12

council

1:18 6:147:3 11:1513:215:1716:2423:1024:12

28:1031:2532:636:1137:938:2339:2340:4 43:744:2045:4,1050:1162:14,15,19 63:1,569:1570:7,973:675:1376:9,10,11,13 82:192:2594:4 97:199:24107:17112:6114:14119:13120:3,6,22 121:1,7127:14,21128:9131:25133:8134:15,23137:6142:23152:10,13,18 153:3155:3,8173:5,6,11182:5,16187:20,24188:17189:1194:11202:23,24203:4206:11211:17,19,23213:15,17


,18214:11215:10216:4,22,23,24217:8218:17219:3,9,13 221:9227:17235:15239:3241:5,11,23242:9,12,13,16252:1

councillor

14:21,2417:15,2518:20,2420:2,2421:1122:4,529:2430:1 38:452:2274:2194:5,10,18,24136:17137:12153:24

councillor

s 15:13

16:2120:722:19,2323:2324:2,1327:1532:335:1736:237:18,21,2338:12,2139:670:1371:21

73:2374:5,1775:1594:11114:15,16139:7144:21153:13154:1,4,13,14

councils

137:23138:2151:16,22,25

Council's

11:18172:16173:2216:2,17217:1236:17

counsel

2:3,5,727:11,2170:1,2178:18111:5139:17156:25

counting

138:25

couple

65:1980:16107:13108:23113:18136:13163:1

course

17:4 19:326:1028:1143:550:2564:2178:1784:17

85:1389:1 91:692:1997:9113:11140:20175:12

court

115:19,24116:5

cover 26:8

125:5152:8190:21,24212:7222:8,15,18 224:1246:5247:10249:12

coverage

110:18123:5169:4

covered

86:20131:19189:23

covering

18:1326:2066:2585:24187:14189:9199:8,13202:25212:10,21213:7,10220:13223:11235:21238:3,16,23

coverings

244:6

creates

146:22

criteria

126:22127:12147:25148:5,8,9,11 178:7182:9247:11

criterion

148:3

critical

50:15,2551:255:1056:20

cross-

examinati

on

3:6,8,96:3 8:1990:5107:6109:24

cross-

examine

74:3

cross-

examining

5:14

culture

37:24113:2119:25140:19

Cunningham

20:25

curious

127:11

current

221:3

currently

46:15

cutting

119:3

cycles

168:25

D

daily

162:7

Dale 35:16

37:693:23

Darin

88:2489:24

dark

122:11

data

145:19

date 12:24

14:288:14157:14,16,22158:3,5197:4211:2218:18221:19231:3239:6240:14,15,18,23,24

dated

78:2095:10195:22

dates 41:3

46:1 49:5128:5158:17

dating

146:3

Dave 3:12

14:1079:11,14,2580:8,2181:2182:7,9,13,21,2483:6,8,10,15,21,22


,2384:10,1297:1798:7100:19104:18105:10159:18,20160:7,11,16,20,23161:18162:1,7,15,24163:6,16,22164:2,22165:3,10,16,18,23,25166:4,11,19167:1,4,12,18,21168:3,11,15,20170:1,18,22171:6,9,17172:12,20,24173:4,13,21 174:17175:1,8,19176:4,11,21177:2,14,19,25178:5179:7,14,21181:3,7,10,23182:5,15,21183:6,14,23184:9,15,25185:12,16

186:6,10,23 187:18188:2,7,13,23189:2,14,18,24190:25191:6,9,20192:6,9,14,19,25193:1,6,13,16,21194:12,16195:2,7,13,18,23196:13,19,25197:3,7,16198:1,5,9,17199:3,7,15,22,24200:8,13201:1,8,13,18,24202:7,16203:5,17204:2,6,9,17,25205:14,17206:1,5,9,18,24207:6,11,23208:4,15,21210:5,13,19,25211:9,14,24212:3,11,18,22213:2,12214:13,22215:4,17216:8,16217:3,15,20218:2,6,1

3,18,22219:6,11,18220:6,17221:7,16222:13223:21224:16,22225:15,22,25226:18227:4,10228:3,13,21229:6,12,17,20,23230:2,6,10,16,25231:6,16232:2,7,11,16233:4,10,16,24234:18,23235:12,22236:3,10,16,23237:9,22,25 238:5239:1,7,12,17240:1,6,10,13,22241:10,21242:3,11,17,22243:7244:8,17,21245:2,6,20246:12,14,22247:4,14,17,21248:10,16,19249:8,15,24250:4,9,14,21,25

251:3,10,14,21,24252:8,12253:3,13

day 45:1

62:6,1289:497:19117:15123:15132:1169:1183:25211:16223:3234:1250:17253:17

days 5:24

43:4,1345:649:18,1961:16147:22166:13

day-to-day

162:18183:16

deadline

59:23241:5

deal 162:8

176:24179:9

deals

180:2

debenture

71:11

debentures

143:20

debt

71:11,12114:1118:22

December

115:3

decide

186:17

decided

28:17

decision

73:996:14151:8177:11,21,24 182:9183:1,4184:7,18,21 185:3186:3,5221:14244:4,14246:21

deemed

142:21174:13178:14205:2,6

define

119:16

defined

173:25174:16

defines

182:10183:3

defining

164:10238:15

definitely

16:4 47:9108:2120:19

definition

s 173:24

degree

120:18136:14165:15

deliver

135:24151:23153:9


155:4,22

delivered

119:13155:4

delivering

124:3127:8129:6,13134:22152:1,3

delivers

115:9,11

delivery

105:4114:2126:16137:5

demographi

c 142:4

demonstrat

ed 110:13

128:17

Dennis

88:2389:24197:7,14,20

department

119:15,20130:14131:19139:9,11169:16173:17174:11,21,23,24175:4,9,20 177:6186:15193:24194:8,10,24195:11,17242:18,20

department

s 169:11

170:7

174:8

department

-specific

186:14

depend

170:1

depending

173:14175:1177:2,8

deports

19:6

deputy

14:2419:270:2572:1376:21,2277:5,11,21 86:1987:19,20,22,2388:4,989:491:1992:7,13157:10158:13188:3,13200:22,25207:7,10210:14229:7,25

described

28:19209:22,24210:22214:8,10

describing

225:10

descriptio

n 4:2

218:16238:11243:22

desi 183:3

design

143:8166:25202:17225:17226:9,18231:7,10,14 232:18234:3237:2243:11,24245:21248:17,21,23

design/

build

163:17164:12,16

design/

procure

163:18

designed

27:13,1496:22

designing

161:11166:6

desirable

178:24

desire

135:24198:10,14241:22

desired

134:21

despite

64:4

detail

76:181:12,15124:8

detailed

79:24195:4221:11222:1237:1243:3,5

244:20245:2,11,14246:18,19

details

110:16245:1

determinat

ion

110:11248:1

determine

191:7208:8249:4

determined

189:22220:2

determinin

g 168:25

236:20

develop

169:13170:3,7,8

developed

13:5 73:7171:24223:8

developers

161:10

developing

9:5,1211:522:1723:22208:17214:14

developmen

t 6:13

37:1138:1350:1551:2135:22169:23,25173:19

develops

16:11

diamonds

22:10,11

dictate

180:6

difference

218:23246:7

different

56:4 69:891:22132:9133:5137:23143:13218:10225:3227:5250:16

differentl

y 108:17

difficult

12:620:15110:16190:2,7,9240:5249:18

difficulty

117:10138:24

diligence

96:1797:20

diploma

165:15,16

direct

117:23168:5180:24

directed

66:2,1782:483:1785:20,2286:1100:19,20


210:1235:16,20236:6239:3,11

directing

219:14221:10

direction

7:3 11:1528:1431:2435:23,2443:6 63:567:569:13,1475:2576:280:5,888:2389:596:12123:7,20127:21128:24,25132:1134:15,23176:14,20178:11181:1186:3,5,17,20,22212:12213:21,24214:7227:17235:15237:20

directiona

l 242:5

directions

213:20

directly

82:2383:5130:16,21186:14252:21

director

53:21

113:1119:25121:24130:23140:18142:18167:21

directs

202:24216:4

dis 29:5

disabiliti

es 142:13

disagree

71:14,15156:10

disagreeme

nt 57:17

disappoint

ed 95:16

disappoint

ment

95:17

discuss

12:1815:1396:23184:16185:21,22187:19

discussed

26:18,1928:1599:15185:2188:5189:1,9192:18,22199:5,13213:1217:18231:1

discusses

158:12178:23

discussing

35:21

38:1699:16223:14

discussion

10:19,2111:2526:2128:7,929:4 36:339:1756:859:15,1860:586:1688:8101:24112:22135:16138:16171:10184:18187:6211:3212:19215:5,8222:24242:4

discussion

s 12:1,2

26:2427:2029:6 72:288:497:8,15,2198:10,16,17,24,2599:2136:4170:4,23212:9224:18229:13237:19238:1

displayed

107:18

displeasur

e 63:14

dispute

122:7,9

distinctio

n 218:16

divestment

146:12

divided

213:19

doc 44:4

117:16124:21125:25

document

6:1816:18,1924:2031:132:1537:11,12,1441:18,2044:3 46:848:1551:860:2564:17100:14,17,18,23,25101:2,5,10,11102:22,24103:8,9,14,20104:1,3,5,10,13,17,20,22107:23157:13,16,25158:11170:11,25171:8179:24195:21200:20210:8213:17214:2,8,10

documentat

ion

231:21

documents

32:536:10,1338:14,1750:22100:25162:16169:17170:8,14171:13188:16202:20213:16

dollar

133:2,9

dollars

22:9,1325:20105:14121:10140:14163:2

Don 125:7

done 9:25

51:756:2059:20,2365:2173:882:1786:397:20100:13115:8134:2164:9,17191:4194:14208:24211:12219:16220:3,11,15,16,20221:6223:18226:7,21


232:18233:20236:1237:13,16240:9

door

204:18

double

228:8

doubt

50:2358:2577:4,979:1495:18105:10144:21

dozen

251:15

Dr 125:7

draft

170:3

drafting

166:17252:4

draftsman

160:25166:12,17

draw 40:22

118:13,21

drawings

166:6196:8

drawn

218:16

dream

118:18

drive

162:11

dropping

224:7226:4,13

dry 101:15

due 96:17

97:20

duration

124:24

during

17:424:1026:1050:154:1455:1056:2064:2066:978:1792:1998:18,20111:23,24112:4113:7,21115:6119:10133:11147:4149:12232:18

duties

39:11

E

earlier

29:1855:771:2198:17187:4199:1211:10212:13218:1246:23247:8

early

147:22,24162:24166:12192:15,20200:14203:15223:22224:18

252:15,18

earned

165:15

easily

118:19

easy

128:23156:13

economic

132:25135:21,25136:7149:15

economical

ly 133:11

Ed 28:6

79:8,2482:6,1493:1998:8100:20167:14,18

Eddie

18:1319:23

edits

170:10

education

165:9

Edwards

20:2

Edwin 2:11

effectivel

y 149:7

efficienci

es 119:16

efficiency

102:5235:6

effort

92:22120:24126:10

efforts

112:1

129:18

EHH 136:15

EHH10

93:12

eight

153:12154:25

either

7:15104:10111:9149:15169:9173:19180:10181:18184:17187:5199:7221:8228:8235:8238:11

elected

152:19154:1,16155:1

election

7:79:21,25112:15,16113:24,25114:7,10,11,13119:12

elections

112:22114:25

element

165:2

eleven

105:19

eligibilit

y 148:5

eliminated

149:7

else

116:14175:5193:11200:6209:1217:2,19224:12249:10

email 8:14

9:13 10:612:2,11,1729:19,2530:5,6,8,18,2431:1,3,13,1432:22,2333:7,2434:2,6,18,20 35:1836:737:1538:348:2250:2151:7,11,12,14,1852:4,8,2161:10,12,2362:2,12,13,1863:15,2164:1165:287:2389:2190:2093:1894:10,1595:9,1098:7124:1138:11,15157:18,19,24158:12,15185:18195:22


197:6,12,13 210:16

emailing

62:3

emails

6:2410:2211:2532:2446:1384:1892:693:12,1897:1698:1,11,12 200:22211:17

EMC 13:18

31:1550:653:1079:10,11,23 92:2293:6,2095:3183:13184:6,21185:1186:5,20

emergency

180:3

emotion

123:25

empirical

145:19

employed

138:3

employees

130:15

employment

168:9

EMT 184:2

enclose

67:16217:11

enclosed

246:2

enclosing

217:14221:11243:6

enclosure

190:18222:2,22243:19

enclosures

101:14

encountere

d 130:20

endeavours

120:2

energy

100:8102:4,5234:25

engaged

120:7,23164:9

engineer

163:18202:17

engineerin

g 134:4

135:9161:1,2,21 164:3167:22171:22245:9

engineer's

245:8

enjoyed

84:11

enjoys

138:2

enlighten

138:14

enormous

118:22

ensure

194:24

206:13232:22

ensuring

168:23174:4,19175:6,10

entering

146:7

Enterprise

7:1910:10,12

entire

102:23

entitled

48:1,3

environmen

t 123:15

132:1137:7

environmen

ts 101:15

EPCOR

138:5

equally

77:20

equivalenc

y 230:20

233:20

equivalent

231:8233:12,15

Eric 2:18

escalating

186:16

escaping

85:19

especially

45:17142:17

essence

224:6

essentiall

y 166:13

173:4

191:13193:6,25200:23220:21226:2238:15243:12

establish

12:768:10122:20126:22130:18

establishe

d 183:9

estimate

198:11,14243:12,24245:3,8,11,14

estimated

86:2

estimates

211:21221:11236:17,21243:3,5244:20245:1246:18

et 14:3

30:2 39:752:19,22100:8

ethanol

160:14161:10,12167:5

evaluation

178:13

evaluation

s 169:20

evening

70:9107:17

evening's

52:17

event 7:15

25:431:1342:362:2565:969:1979:2387:1797:16101:18102:9109:1

events

110:22154:5

eventually

85:21

everybody

175:23,25176:1,13215:12221:22253:19

everyone

176:20

everything

155:20215:12

evidence

59:1160:1569:783:2391:25113:22116:2123:1,17138:15

evidenced

229:7

evident

63:21

evidently

212:11

evolution


162:10

evolve

199:9

evolved

198:21222:19

ex 225:22

exact 46:1

120:19125:12132:15140:13149:24151:17191:9

exactly

20:1575:1782:22149:18

examinatio

n 3:10

89:2157:7

Examinatio

n-in-

Chief

3:13159:22

examined

102:11

example

130:22

examples

179:1247:6

except

165:12225:21,22,25 244:6

exceptions

108:24

excerpt

215:24,25

excess

140:14

exchange

6:1651:1461:8,1563:21157:18,19200:22

exclude

244:5

excluded

244:7

excuse

110:7131:11

executing

14:14

executive

14:8 41:542:1154:1555:4,8,15,1756:16,18,2257:4,6,858:2,17,1959:1,2,22183:8

Exhibit

4:2

Exhibits

3:3 4:1

exist

191:8

existing

19:2221:3146:14212:7220:4,9222:3,15,18,21223:2224:1,7,8226:5,19,

20 238:7247:10253:6

exiting

191:24

expand

155:19

expanding

143:10

expansion

163:1,8,12,23,25164:3,9165:1

expectatio

ns 241:23

expected

194:14221:13246:17

expedite

155:3,22

expediting

123:12155:16,25

expeditiou

s 153:8

expense

156:1162:11

expenses

119:4

experience

96:18111:15126:16130:3,5140:18162:5166:24202:1232:10244:11245:9246:16251:19

experience

d 170:7

expertise

126:24184:4

expiration

67:4

explain

89:8168:16170:20237:7253:10

explained

249:16253:14

explanatio

n 92:13

exploratio

n 67:5

213:25

explore

23:1732:166:2467:12127:19146:23

explored

11:1867:13,15,20 68:2,9136:14

exploring

11:1967:2368:11,1269:1273:1976:196:17

express

22:19101:9242:8

expressed

50:10,13

71:2175:1394:18

expresses

71:6

expressing

18:4,12,16 20:621:4,1522:2471:20,22

expression

26:3126:22131:8

extend

59:19

extension

178:10

extensive

6:11

extent

29:1077:19187:8253:9

exterior

218:7

Extruded

218:6

F

fabri

246:2

fabric

26:13,2527:266:3,17,2567:6,10,13,15,16,2068:4,9,1269:13,1487:16158:14187:1,5


189:10,19,23190:21,24203:1217:12,13,19,21,23218:4219:10,17221:12228:6,7,12,16230:12235:17,21236:8,14237:11,21238:4,23243:6244:6,15245:12,15,18,23246:1,2,10,18,19,20,23247:13,17,19248:14249:5,11,17

face

199:25

faced

71:13

facilitate

11:16133:1226:24

facilitato

r 169:11

facilities

19:6,2485:18123:21132:23149:10151:3160:4166:25168:18169:1,2,3

,5,7171:4187:2,17188:19189:1198:11,23213:19214:12224:11249:12,23253:5,7

facility

6:1115:8,2418:519:1020:1772:588:18111:10,11121:18122:2124:11133:3,10140:22143:4,7144:1150:7,14151:9,19152:25155:23213:22225:3232:20235:5238:8246:2,8253:4,6

fact 14:20

15:2228:2256:1657:767:13,2070:871:1780:2082:5,1483:1591:5

105:17110:15,17,19121:25122:9,21135:18140:11,20141:4,11142:9,17,25 144:21149:1,14150:4154:24211:20225:21226:1231:14

factions

123:19

factor

102:2

factors

100:6

fair

9:14,1510:13,1414:1219:3,19,20 20:1921:6,822:14,15,22 23:1229:637:11,1345:749:2550:16,1754:855:1963:16,1777:15,1683:12,1395:2496:997:24122:17123:3,21128:7,20136:2146:8,10,

15 219:5

fairly

148:11250:15

fairness

128:2136:15

fall

112:20

familiar

101:20,22115:12121:20126:19133:22171:3193:2

families

154:5

fashion

120:4

fast 21:17

fastest

21:13

Fast-

forward

151:13

favour

7:22

feasabilit

y 215:15

feasibilit

y 219:16

221:14

feasible

189:17

featured

237:4,7

features

238:11,21

February

190:17

federal

147:8

150:15

Federation

144:25

Feds

147:12149:8

feel 12:11

24:1540:7,1162:395:4,5153:13242:8

feeling

94:1895:19

fees 119:4

feet

226:24

fell 175:9

felt 18:4

23:1629:1831:2240:977:4,10,20 93:2494:2596:13,16120:14123:20124:2240:17

Fernie

127:16

fibreglass

248:5

Field

121:18

fields

138:8

figure

20:15105:1132:12141:22


252:22

figured

209:17

figures

105:3106:2

filtration

220:10,24222:25

FINA 225:5

final

96:14105:11,24106:9,16170:11221:19,21,22

finalized

93:21101:24

finally

87:4

finance

113:25

finances

26:2119:2,6

financial

118:24186:11

finding

146:19

findings

129:13

finds

151:17

fine 5:7

80:14132:6136:23

finish

36:19

finished

103:25161:19

fire 19:5

86:2087:2,7,1289:11158:6

firm 135:9

firmly

43:17

first

21:23,2535:1640:2541:1 50:151:1254:2585:17103:19104:25110:4112:17125:23127:15145:10180:2186:25187:15191:11216:2218:19

fiscal

152:20

Fisher

121:18

fit 171:25

226:8,22248:17

five 15:23

45:5117:2125:14150:13151:14156:4

flame

190:1194:3

flat 234:7

fleet

160:4168:18,20,22 171:4

focus

110:24117:24120:11149:11249:14250:18

focused

149:6

focussed

18:22249:9250:15

Focussing

200:3

follow-up

89:23

forces

164:6

forecastin

g 240:4

forefront

153:23

forget

156:23178:17

Forgetting

60:1395:17

forgotten

156:24

form

104:12209:25213:11228:16

formal

170:18,24171:11195:14

formed

183:13

239:9

former

121:23125:7142:18

forth

220:9

forward

20:4,823:9 24:329:438:6,2352:1663:370:1475:1,976:12136:1139:16148:10151:8158:12194:20197:10208:8220:19

Foundation

6:1724:20107:23157:25158:11195:21200:20210:8214:1

fourth

18:2171:7118:15

frame 96:3

110:25136:6191:10211:1218:7226:4,5247:22

Frank 1:7

5:5,238:1,6,9,1730:7,17,21 31:2,632:2041:14,2343:2447:3,1258:1168:18,2269:1,572:11,20,2473:2,1174:2,978:3,1284:186:1187:1891:8,1198:9102:10,15103:24105:20,25106:10,14107:1109:15,19115:21,25116:10,13,18,25122:18132:5148:15156:6,17,21 157:4158:1,7159:6,11209:4,10,15 223:15224:5,20225:20,23226:3227:7,12233:17234:16242:23243:2244:3,10,19,23


245:5,17246:9,13,15247:2,12,15,18248:8,13,18,24253:18,22

frankly

143:15155:24

Frederick

2:11 3:75:18,256:3,5,227:148:4,8,11,259:3,4,1710:8,1611:3,11,2312:10,2113:1,4,11,16,21,2514:12,1715:10,2116:7,10,1417:8,13,18,2418:9,1919:1,14,2120:1,12,23 21:9,2022:3,1623:2,7,2024:9,18,2525:11,2526:7,12,23 27:3,2428:4,18,2229:2,9,13,17,2330:10,19,2331:4,8,11

,1232:2,8,14,18,2233:3,6,12,18,22,2334:1,5,15,1935:3,10,13,14,2036:1,6,16,20,2337:1,5,19,2538:10,2539:5,1540:2,15,19 41:942:1,2,1743:3,12,1844:1,6,9,11,16,1745:2,9,1946:5,12,2147:6,17,18,21,2448:5,7,13,2049:9,10,20,2450:1851:5,20,2452:5,7,11,1453:1,6,9,1554:1,6,11,2455:12,2156:10,1457:2,11,14,2558:6,10,23,2459:6,10,2460:3,13,20 61:5,2262:1,22

63:7,12,1864:5,10,1665:1,8,14,18 66:667:2,9,19,2368:3,5,8,15,20,2369:3,10,11,17,2370:6,11,16,2471:5,672:17,2273:1,4,1774:7,10,15,1675:19,2276:7,15,1977:3,9,17,2378:1,6,15,1679:1,7,18,2280:3,10,14,1981:3,6,2482:3,11,2483:2,7,14,1984:3,7,8,13,16,2485:2,7,1186:4,8,23,2487:6,10,14,2088:1,2,10,16,2190:3,12,15,2491:3,10,16,1792:4,12,15,1793:4,10,1

7 94:1695:1,796:4,8,1997:4,1398:2,6,14,22,2399:4,9,10,22 100:3101:1,6102:3,8,13,17,20,21103:4,7,13,18104:8,9,14,23105:9,23106:5,18,23

frequency

185:6

Friday

49:2,13,16 253:19

friend

27:1085:18

fringe

232:11

frivolous

141:12

front

16:23214:17217:8235:14

fulfil

237:20

fulfill

203:8

full 20:17

22:1 24:561:7 72:9

full-time

109:1

fully

75:25

function

42:10174:9,18

fund 147:1

funding

24:7 75:2121:9,11143:25144:3147:6,11,20 148:20150:5,10,12 152:11154:22

future 5:7

28:1071:1472:6204:19208:3

G

gain

234:11

Gardhouse

22:4

Gardhouse'

s 22:5

gather

195:5

gathering

13:2

ge 145:11

Geddes

124:21125:7,25

general

26:21,24113:25130:11,14138:16145:13,24172:20175:17176:8186:22195:13


213:20217:22228:23229:1

generally

169:25172:7174:17185:5247:21

generated

215:2

gentleman

77:1885:19

gentlemen

200:1

geographic

131:18

George 2:9

3:8107:3,6,7,10,21108:6,13,16,20109:6,13

gets 224:3

getting

27:745:2162:673:8,989:591:22148:7170:13

given

15:2357:769:2470:281:1290:2092:9,10153:7241:24

giving

22:1942:1550:1080:5,8,21

gleaned

253:12

goals 14:3

go-forward

134:11

gold 234:9

gone 5:21

229:13

goods

174:12180:8,19

google

123:4

Googling

133:20

governance

12:9

government

143:21144:4147:7,8149:13150:15152:12154:17205:1,2

government

's 145:15

Government

s 145:25

grading

220:21

grant

122:16231:20

granted

231:10

great 62:9

115:4131:9

Green

160:14,22161:17162:5

Greenland

134:4,13,21135:5,8

Green's

160:18

ground 7:6

9:21 15:687:3

groundbrea

king

87:1,788:6,1489:10

ground-

breaking

157:12,23158:5,18

groundswel

l 14:19

15:4

group

184:16206:19,22207:2

groups

121:17

guess 5:14

44:2545:1487:17110:4111:10128:5129:17156:3160:24166:11169:7172:12173:4175:20181:11

186:15219:25223:6224:13,22,23 229:7237:9240:22250:9252:18

guidance

176:24

Guideline

171:2,14172:5

H

hae 97:3

half 50:24

54:1455:3,1456:19250:17251:15

hall 1:17

12:2319:586:2187:2,7,1289:11107:15108:7158:6

Halton

130:23

hand 123:6

127:1

handle

45:16

hap 61:13

happen

30:8226:12241:17

happened

152:14168:9196:17

225:18241:12

happenings

113:10

happy 8:20

61:1462:6,1285:2,598:5

hard 71:25

72:1

hard-

working

84:21

haven't

136:3151:13230:19

having

38:1642:2589:23104:10139:1143:2151:18153:3158:2196:10198:15207:17

head 5:22

77:19131:20138:6139:9,11173:17174:11,21,23,24175:4177:6186:15191:10242:18

heading

96:12190:20

heads


119:15,20242:20

health

149:15221:3

hear 11:10

60:10137:1165:11

heard 10:6

19:370:1274:1676:3113:22123:16132:12,13136:24144:23215:10

hearing

20:8 23:7110:2113:12,21121:2,12122:6

heat 223:9

he'd 6:25

held 1:16

160:9162:4218:19

Hello

52:22110:3

help 46:22

115:5117:13128:23149:1151:20169:12,13233:18

helped

14:10

helpful

25:22

39:172:13110:9132:4

helping

133:1252:22

hence

54:1555:4

Heritage

81:19196:6212:15,17238:7

he's 17:21

18:1119:17,1820:6,11,15,16,2021:21,2531:14,1762:1772:8,984:18,1993:19,20105:22

Hi 110:4

hierarchy

206:25

high

144:2,11165:8166:17168:17

higher

181:13,19182:3,4

highly

113:23129:18,24138:8

highly-

functioni

ng 126:25

highways

148:1

hint 157:3

hired

167:17168:1

hiring

114:11

history

120:1153:11

hockey

189:22

Hoffa

209:16

Hogg

200:22

hold 9:23

138:18160:22

holidays

48:1

honest

12:1698:3

Honour

44:2 47:773:1874:8,1978:7 84:498:1599:5102:14105:24106:6,19,23107:4,22115:20123:4131:23156:20209:14253:15,21

HONOURABLE

5:5,238:1,6,9,17

30:7,17,21 31:2,632:2041:14,2343:2447:3,1258:1168:18,2269:1,572:11,20,2473:2,1174:2,978:3,1284:186:1187:1891:8,1198:9102:10,15103:24105:20,25106:10,14107:1109:15,19115:21,25116:10,13,18,25122:18132:5148:15156:6,17,21 157:4158:1,7159:6,11209:4,10,15 223:15224:5,20225:20,23226:3227:7,12233:17234:16242:23243:2244:3,10,19,23245:5,17246:9,13,15247:2,12,

15,18248:8,13,18,24253:18,22

hopefully

9:25

hoping

27:5

horizon

112:15

hospitals

144:10

Houghton

2:1114:1,728:6,2039:1842:456:2557:1858:559:13,1560:5,1661:10,15,23 62:1163:1564:1865:3,5,1177:2079:8,2483:17,2492:593:1997:1898:8100:20106:2138:25167:14,18168:14183:9185:5,15,18 186:2199:2200:5229:15230:4

Houghton's


62:2

house

164:9

HR 167:12

183:23

huge

130:14

Hull 35:17

37:751:11,1352:8,15,22

Hume 19:5

hundred

105:2,14106:7142:12

Hurontario

1:19

hus 144:10

I

i.e 43:14

77:12,19

ice 17:20

18:2,4,5,8,11,2220:5,923:2424:4,1425:626:9,2074:1,6,2475:9152:24153:9154:25

I'd 15:5

32:2446:360:1098:4102:6107:23123:14125:2131:6

141:1147:1215:10249:15

ID 44:4

117:16

idea 21:13

202:18203:6212:21222:2,21223:17,20224:6225:1

ideals

190:4

ideas

6:12,13188:18

identified

191:5215:1217:14235:3238:10

identifies

180:17

identify

121:1217:9

identifyin

g 213:25

I'll

5:7,8,957:2060:2362:1069:374:19107:21110:5123:10,13124:10126:4129:11140:2142:3147:10

203:12211:18216:13219:25237:17

I'm

7:12,13,14 8:15,209:411:19,2012:114:1816:2017:14,2218:2020:322:4,11,16 23:725:130:1139:15,24,2540:10,21,2341:9,10,16 42:3,2446:1547:4,9,1448:8,949:4,1750:2 51:652:954:2558:460:18,21,2561:13,1464:1966:4,8,967:7,18,21,2568:10,2169:18,2373:1875:4,16,17,2176:1081:186:5,8,1187:1890:16,17

93:11,1895:15100:13102:14103:19105:24107:11108:7,14110:1,23112:8114:3,4,23 115:7116:21117:24118:21119:25120:20122:10125:2,8126:13127:3,11128:4,11131:24133:4,22134:18137:13138:6,13139:15,18145:1147:10,23148:7149:18,19150:3,16,24,25152:6,7153:16154:21,23155:19157:2158:1,2,23 164:22170:22187:12193:2198:18205:4208:25209:1211:1214:22219:11,23

222:6224:21227:18237:9,14248:16253:22

immediatel

y 118:16

impact

21:22132:25133:11135:21149:15

impacts

145:18

implicatio

ns 66:24

73:1686:1

importance

143:2

important

118:17,21142:8143:7

imposed

76:9241:5

impossible

190:7

impression

5:12175:16176:8184:19245:18

improve

9:10

improved

176:12

improvemen

t 169:4

improvemen

ts 226:10


improving

146:14

inaccurate

42:19

inappropri

ate 29:25

31:2268:1180:6,22205:3,7

inappropri

ately

112:7

inappropri

ateness

205:10

inaug

115:10

inaugural

115:20

inaugurati

on

115:9,10,15 119:12

incapable

157:2

inception

222:14,23

inches

248:5

in-chief

59:11

include

45:374:2389:15101:25141:4142:21144:3

included

11:2423:1828:2335:1636:10

37:17163:8195:8211:3238:16243:22

includes

37:7

including

36:2 50:6125:23168:22200:1

incorporat

e 190:3

incorrect

87:1

increase

108:25140:10226:24

increased

10:1

incredibly

110:16

indicate

8:12

indicated

10:2339:19,2140:3,1050:19,2255:2357:1560:4,676:2280:1682:2297:6104:4199:19

indicates

25:5157:14

indicating

49:17

indication

94:12

individual

41:20137:12138:8139:2154:13,14161:8174:3176:13,19197:18211:3

individual

s 35:21

206:19,22207:2

indoor

62:7101:14213:5

industrial

101:16166:14

industry

89:25148:19245:10

infants

142:14

influence

204:19

influenced

205:18,22

informatio

n 27:20

38:2340:8,1167:1 76:681:2590:1491:2296:13,24104:15,17110:8113:19122:19,25

153:6,7,16 178:14187:20193:23194:23195:4,6196:2,6197:23,25198:8,22203:21210:2211:12212:13,14218:23,25219:3,9238:6239:20248:11253:6

informativ

e 16:22

informed

119:11

infra

146:2

infrastruc

ture 25:6

143:18145:5146:3,13,14 147:9148:21149:5,9,25

in-house

45:18

initial

71:10222:23253:2

initially

97:18101:12

initiative

126:19127:5,9128:20131:21

135:13

initiative

s 37:24

130:25131:6

input

11:1837:1538:3,842:1554:18,2257:2281:16,23102:18170:5221:22

inquiries

183:24

Inquiry

1:3 2:3,427:1070:1,2078:1799:23110:7111:5113:8,22119:11137:2139:17141:9

inside

222:22225:3226:2,3,22

install

190:5

instance

101:9182:9186:2193:24223:12231:23237:5242:7245:4


instances

120:11178:6

instru

190:6

instructio

n 170:16

instructio

ns 30:2

80:21

insulated

105:12212:6

insulating

230:17

insulation

190:3218:8235:4248:2,3,7

insurance

169:3

insured

168:24

integrity

137:10138:10

intelligen

tly

193:23

intended

232:23249:12

intent

196:7222:3,8224:18227:5,6

intention

236:25

interactio

n 77:5,11

111:6,25

interactio

ns 212:24

interest

23:5126:22131:8135:4,16,25 143:11155:25175:10228:24229:1,6,25 230:4

interested

19:17,1824:539:1654:2561:1469:2473:18103:19217:9229:16,19

interestin

g 25:3

76:20203:8

interests

121:16

interferen

ce

205:2,7,9

interim

221:20

interior

218:8

internally

12:19

Internet

250:5,8

interpret

9:1610:15

interpreta

tion

23:1973:12

interprete

d 10:7

23:6,15123:11

interrupt

8:18

interrupti

on 8:24

interviewe

d 167:8

intimately

147:7

intricatel

y 55:18

79:15

introducin

g 180:21

introducti

on 209:25

introducto

ry 198:19

200:17

invested

132:22

investigat

e

66:8,12,15 202:24

investigat

ed 67:10

228:12

investigat

ing

238:22

investigat

ion 65:21

110:20190:23191:14221:13,17222:1,5,11 224:25225:11,14235:10239:2246:23

247:8

investigat

ions

187:4,9189:16

investigat

ive

208:6,10,23 237:3

investing

149:16

investment

132:19142:23

investment

s 149:5

invitation

60:22

invitation

al 164:24

invite

200:23

invited

108:4188:18252:15253:2

invitees

192:10

involve

32:2438:2243:10

involved

12:14,2228:1930:1 32:437:1453:17,18,2354:7,1755:5,16,18 79:1582:7,10131:6161:1,5

162:16,17,25169:19173:15177:22189:15,18,20191:12206:19207:8,10220:3223:9243:3250:8252:2,3,19,24,25253:8

involvemen

t 79:25

172:16173:2214:14238:22

involvemen

ts 38:12

involving

37:10

Irrespecti

ve 132:15

Irwin 79:9

138:4

isn't

72:13211:20248:20

isolation

184:9,11

issue

10:1224:1797:17112:6121:25128:10136:17156:7174:25177:3


184:17191:25204:8209:18

issue-by-

issue

185:17

issues

45:2053:11135:10183:24185:2189:25190:2,10192:3,21

item 24:16

26:8

items

79:12212:16231:1

it'll

244:2

I've 23:6

34:352:2472:296:10104:2,5115:8132:9,12,13 136:3153:12156:24

J

Jennifer

167:13

job 84:25

167:5,8168:17

Joe

62:4,12,18

John 2:4

3:13

159:17,22,23160:3,8,12,17,21161:15,20162:3,20163:20,24164:15,25165:8,14,17,19,24166:2,16,23167:2,7,16,19,25168:8,13,16 169:22170:15,20,25171:7,12172:1,18,22173:1,10,18,22174:22175:3,14176:2,6,18,22177:10,16,20178:1,20179:8,20,23181:9,14182:2,6,17,25183:7,17184:5,10,20185:4,14186:1,8,19,24187:3,12,23188:4,9,15,24189:6,15,21190:11,16191:2,7,17192:1,7,1

2,16,24193:4,10,14,17194:9,13,21195:5,10,15,20196:16,23197:2,5,21198:3,6,13,25199:4,12,17200:3,10,19201:10,20202:1,11,19203:10,22204:4,7,10,20205:4,16,20206:7,15,21207:1,9,14,25208:9,25209:20,21210:7,12,21211:6,11,16212:1,5,16,20,23213:9,14214:6,16,25215:13,18,23216:10,20217:10,16,24218:3,9,14,21219:2,7,13,22220:14221:5,9222:6

223:13225:8,9227:15,16228:9,15,25229:14,18,21,24230:3,14,22231:4,11,22232:5,9,24233:6,13234:20,21235:7,13,25236:5,12,18237:6,14,24238:2,18239:3,8,15,21240:3,7,11,16241:3,16242:7,15,19 243:1249:1,2,13,20250:1,6,12,19,22251:1,6,11,17,22,25 252:10253:1,10,15,20

join 167:2

joined

170:15175:14

Ju 29:24

judge

110:10

judi

139:16

JUDICIAL

1:3

Jul 75:13

July 6:23

28:2529:6,2432:1933:2438:1843:14,2044:346:1347:7,1548:1050:2,366:2,1069:1570:8,1773:2375:8,1576:2179:1480:587:1288:18157:17158:4200:24201:4202:22,23203:4208:21210:13,18212:25213:15215:16218:15219:10227:17228:10238:3242:25244:4249:3252:1

juncture

15:15

June 12:22

14:1415:216:24


17:518:16,2420:2022:1823:1124:1127:5,12,1328:13,2429:530:2531:1439:2343:753:18,1954:369:1571:2173:874:1875:1487:1789:3,1990:20157:21158:15188:16195:22196:11,15,18197:15212:24218:21

junk

145:17

jurisdicti

onal

38:22

Justice

1:7

K

Kate 2:3

3:1032:2341:1744:4,8,1070:23116:3,12117:16

128:8156:19157:2,7,8158:4,9,10 159:4

Keith

35:1737:751:11,1352:8,14

Kevin

14:21,2217:1518:1,16

key

203:19,20

keynote

115:11

ki 242:4

kids

141:17

Kim 185:8

kinds

18:1591:22149:16244:5,6247:19

knew

76:8,10,11 121:22130:11,17141:4182:18215:12

knowledge

102:1131:12179:9217:22

knowledgea

ble

152:14

known 64:2

87:15121:18

130:6,7180:18217:7235:23

L

labouring

68:16

lands

130:23

language

56:8139:18180:21

large

125:9126:1154:1,6155:1240:3

Largely

230:16

larger

41:19143:22213:5221:1

Larry 79:8

last 20:3

22:5 26:841:10113:11116:8123:23124:18195:25

late 84:19

163:7

later

11:1728:1581:1597:19156:4194:8239:4

lawyer

135:9

layers

130:9

layouts

166:20

lead 90:8

134:5

leadership

128:16,22129:1,2,19 130:3

leads

19:16

leaning

202:18

leapfrog

152:8

learn

104:16172:17,19173:1208:6,7

learned

217:17218:25219:3

least

46:2349:250:2497:16137:24138:1154:15164:23217:5224:10236:7237:15

leave 5:11

35:1541:183:20105:10158:2

leaving

94:6

led 90:11

120:3167:2206:22

LEED 37:23

230:20,23231:5,6,7,9,13,19,25232:10,17233:2,7,11,12,15,19234:3,8,12,14235:10

legal

119:4177:12,18

lens 149:2

155:20

Leonard

53:1078:1979:880:2097:18136:25137:18

Leonard's

138:1

less

148:20

let's 9:23

13:1146:7 86:988:22,25103:20,22141:12227:23

letter

89:2

level

81:12113:9120:25


144:2165:8166:18168:17173:17234:8,9,12 242:18

levels

149:12152:11

liaison

10:24

libraries

147:25149:9

library

187:19,24188:17,22,25189:4,7196:17218:20232:12,18234:5

life

168:25

light

110:17127:4142:17221:18

likely

24:549:1554:288:17186:23192:22

limitation

s 191:5,8

limited

102:1156:25

line 8:19

18:2,2120:421:13

22:559:1976:3,4,8,9236:16,21239:13,14,16242:6,9,21

lines

45:1787:4172:8242:16246:20

link 122:5

136:16210:14

list 3:3

4:1 25:22124:8,9154:22,24180:22191:12192:2,10,17 215:11217:5,6238:15,20

listed

42:12,2158:19

listened

143:10,11

lists

178:25179:1

literature

195:8234:24

little

12:1420:1525:1333:1334:450:2351:152:2,8

61:10,19,20 64:1968:1671:2377:4,995:16,1896:3,6100:8108:17111:1118:9127:3132:2140:2,17144:12145:3,5,16,22149:4243:15

lived

142:1,2

Lloyd

14:21,22,2417:15,16,2518:1,1629:2431:1,1470:2574:2175:5,776:21,2277:6,11,21 192:13197:6,9199:21,23200:23201:1210:14

lobby

111:8112:1

lobbying

112:6

locating

121:17122:2

location

17:2081:2192:1122:7,9151:12

locations

151:15198:22

long 46:18

71:2472:1110:15111:16124:8130:6142:2207:25231:25233:2

longer

68:1680:15

long-

outstandi

ng 24:16

looming

112:15

loop 51:1

93:795:22

lose

205:18,21

lost 142:9

lot 5:24

19:9 30:371:18114:15,16126:11153:15222:5225:3233:20

loud 75:21

love 131:6

low 145:11

lunch

159:12

M

MacDonald

82:17

MacNeil

192:25195:23196:5197:7199:21,24201:1210:13

main 79:19

103:19143:25

maintain

11:1521:3 64:3

maintained

65:12168:24

maintainin

g 142:22

168:21

maintenanc

e 71:13

161:2,3,21 169:2,9

major

113:24146:2162:9213:3

majority

124:23232:16

manage

12:19169:15,16

management

14:9 41:542:1254:1655:4,8,15,1756:17,18,


2257:4,6,858:2,1959:1,3,22183:8206:25

manager

81:20130:12,14160:3161:3,14,19,21168:18171:4174:1,2,10,14,16203:24232:20253:4

managing

160:25

mandate

153:4

Mandy

14:10

maneuver

12:7

manner

153:9178:15195:14

manufactur

ed 233:23

manufactur

er 243:16

245:16,19249:5

manufactur

ers

249:25250:3

manufactur

ing

101:16

Marjory

53:978:19

79:880:2095:1497:18

marked

41:18,21

market

19:15,16164:12,23

marketing

246:1,8249:10

Marrocco

1:75:5,238:1,6,9,1730:7,17,21 31:2,632:2041:14,2343:2447:3,1258:1168:18,2269:1,572:11,20,2473:2,1174:2,978:3,1284:186:1187:1891:8,1198:9102:10,15103:24105:20,25106:10,14107:1109:15,19115:21,25116:10,13,18,25122:18132:5148:15156:6,17,21 157:4

158:1,7159:6,11209:4,10,15 223:15224:5,20225:20,23226:3227:7,12233:17234:16242:23243:2244:3,10,19,23245:5,17246:9,13,15247:2,12,15,18248:8,13,18,24253:18,22

Marron 2:9

3:8107:2,3,6,7,10,11,21108:6,13,16,20109:6,13,16 156:23

marshalled

92:1

Marta 3:5

5:3 6:247:12 9:1510:5,14,17,2011:7,1212:4,16,2513:3,20,24 14:5,1615:9,2016:1,9,1317:6,11,17,2218:7,18,2519:12,20,

2520:10,2221:7,1922:2,1523:1,4,1324:1,1225:10,2126:6,11,17 27:1,1728:3,16,2129:1,8,1230:331:2332:7,1733:1,5,17,19,2534:3,10,17,2235:1,8,19,2536:5,15,18,22,2537:3,13,22 38:1,2039:10,2540:6,1841:742:7,2343:8,1644:2545:8,12,25 46:2047:2,8,14,19,2348:2,6,1249:4,14,23 50:1751:4,1752:1,6,9,13,2453:5,8,13,2554:5,9,13,17,2155:2,11,2056:3,13,2357:10,13,20

58:2,4,8,1559:5,1760:1,8,1761:11,18,25 62:2163:4,17,23 64:9,2565:7,1266:4,2267:7,18,22,2568:4,7,1369:1670:4,10,1575:16,21,24 76:1477:1,7,16,2279:17,2180:1,7,12,1881:1,5,1182:2,8,1983:1,3,13,1884:11,14,2385:1,4,2286:6,13,2587:8,13,2288:7,13,19 89:2090:10,13,2291:1,7,1392:2,10,14,1693:1,9,2394:9,2095:596:1,6,1097:2,11,25 98:4,1999:3,20100:1,24101:4,22102:6


103:3,6,16104:2,12,21 105:6106:12107:9,19108:2,10,15,18109:5,8110:3111:12,18,21112:2,8,19,24113:3,13,16114:5,9,19,24115:2,13,16 117:25119:8,21120:12121:4,12,21122:4,14123:22124:4,12,15,21125:17,22126:3,11,18127:15,25128:4,21129:3,8,16,20130:2,7131:15132:18133:4,13,18,22134:9,17,24 135:14136:3138:18139:13140:25141:10,16,18142:11143:5144:2,6

146:9,17,20,24147:17,19148:4,18149:17,20,23150:8,16151:25152:4153:15,21154:2,7,11,18155:6,10,24 158:22

material

194:2

Mather 2:4

3:13159:17,22,23160:3,8,12,17,21161:15,20162:3,20163:20,24164:15,25165:8,14,17,19,24166:2,16,23167:2,7,16,19,25168:8,13,16 169:22170:15,20,25171:7,12172:1,18,22173:1,10,18,22174:22175:3,14176:2,6,18,22177:10,16,20178:1,20179:8,20,23

181:9,14182:2,6,17,25183:7,17184:5,10,20185:4,14186:1,8,19,24187:3,12,23188:4,9,15,24189:6,15,21190:11,16191:2,7,17192:1,7,12,16,24193:4,10,14,17194:9,13,21195:5,10,15,20196:16,23197:2,5,21198:3,6,13,25199:4,12,17200:3,10,19201:10,20202:1,11,19203:10,22204:4,7,10,20205:4,16,20206:7,15,21207:1,9,14,25208:9,25209:20,21210:7,12,21

211:6,11,16212:1,5,16,20,23213:9,14214:6,16,25215:13,18,23216:10,20217:10,16,24218:3,9,14,21219:2,7,13,22220:14221:5,9222:6223:13225:8,9227:15,16228:9,15,25229:14,18,21,24230:3,14,22231:4,11,22232:5,9,24233:6,13234:20,21235:7,13,25236:5,12,18237:6,14,24238:2,18239:3,8,15,21240:3,7,11,16241:3,16242:7,15,19 243:1249:1,2,13,20250:1,6,1

2,19,22251:1,6,11,17,22,25 252:10253:1,10,15,20

matter

21:1254:463:13,2472:1673:12,1475:9 82:492:1998:12110:19175:17186:22

matters

14:2 30:438:1239:2062:14,1869:1993:3100:5183:17

may 14:21

17:220:1630:12,2535:2261:9 73:685:1488:5,1289:194:21105:16107:22108:1109:1111:2,6121:15122:20,22,24 128:8131:25141:2142:4145:25164:22


167:14178:24180:6,13185:1187:1189:4193:2,19195:19199:20,22200:5203:16207:19214:14217:17218:24222:4,10225:10228:6234:24

maybe 6:11

14:1969:4,874:1282:16120:11137:24140:15141:21155:13165:25203:12208:22215:8216:13219:25220:23237:17250:17251:16253:7

mayor 6:9

14:24,2519:2 51:752:15,2054:12,2070:2572:1376:21,2277:5,11,21 86:19

87:19,21,2388:4,8,991:5,9,10,1992:7,13107:12115:9,11119:13125:7152:18,21157:10188:3,14200:8,14,22,25201:11,23202:2203:14204:1,5205:15,17207:7,10209:23210:14229:7,8,25

mayor's

6:2587:1589:4108:5158:13207:15229:25

McDowell

2:13

McGrann

2:3 3:1032:2341:1744:4,8,1070:23115:18116:3,8,12 117:16128:8156:19157:2,7,8158:4,9,10 159:4

McNalty

3:1214:1082:7,9,13,15,21,2583:6,8,16,21,22,2584:10,1290:2597:1798:8100:11,19101:21104:18105:10,21106:3,15159:18,20,24160:7,11,16,20,23161:18162:1,7,15,24163:6,16,22164:2,22165:3,10,16,18,23,25166:4,11,19167:1,4,12,18,21168:3,11,15,20170:1,18,22171:6,9,17172:12,20,24173:4,13,21 174:17175:1,8,19176:4,11,21177:2,14,19,25178:5179:7,14,21

181:3,7,10,23182:5,15,21183:6,14,23184:9,15,25185:12,16186:6,10,23 187:18188:2,7,13,23189:2,14,18,24190:25191:6,9,20192:6,9,14,19193:1,6,13,16,21194:12,16195:2,7,13,18196:13,19,25197:3,16198:1,5,9,17199:3,7,15,22200:8,13201:8,13,18,24202:7,16203:5,17204:2,6,9,17,25205:14,17206:1,5,9,18,24207:6,11,23208:4,15,21209:5,22210:5,19,25211:9,14,24

212:3,11,18,22213:2,12214:13,22215:4,17216:8,16217:3,15,20218:2,6,13,18,22219:6,11,18220:6,17221:7,16222:13223:21224:16,22225:15,22,25226:18227:4,10228:3,13,21229:6,12,17,20,23230:2,6,10,16,25231:6,16232:2,7,11,16233:4,10,16,24234:18,23235:12,22236:3,10,16,23237:9,22,25 238:5239:1,7,12,17240:1,6,10,13,22241:10,21242:3,11,17,22243:7244:8,17,21245:2,6,20246:12,14


,22247:4,14,17,21248:10,16,19249:8,15,24250:4,9,14,21,25251:3,10,14,21,24252:8,12253:3,13

McNalty's

106:4,6

mean 7:11

74:6117:10174:2,23177:5184:10186:8187:21192:10203:18211:4218:4229:2230:10237:7244:12246:16247:3

meaning

206:9231:8248:5

means

236:8

meant 7:13

216:6

measures

119:17

measuring

149:15

mechanical

173:9222:16

223:8225:4

mechanism

143:17

media 7:18

110:18123:5

meet 50:6

76:692:23191:15,19193:8194:18225:5234:3,12241:23246:25247:10

meeting

13:6,2315:316:1718:1722:1824:2,1126:1027:5,12,13,1828:10,13,15,2429:538:1843:14,17,20 52:1761:1770:7,1873:2375:8,14104:11108:11119:20127:6128:10185:1,19187:19,24188:6,17,21 189:7191:11192:2,5,8,13,17,23

,25194:11,15196:15,20,21,24197:1,10,14,18198:2,4,15,17,19,20199:2,6,13,20200:7,17,24201:3,11,22202:2,21,23203:4,15204:1,5207:16,18208:2209:22,24210:1,4,6211:10,18,19,23213:16,17215:16,25218:19219:1,5,8227:18228:14238:3249:3252:2

meetings

91:5 93:594:1195:3,9,12,15,21,2596:2,21131:2188:25189:3192:15,21197:19200:14207:13210:4217:17223:22229:13

231:2252:16,18253:2

member

15:2353:10125:18126:8183:11184:6186:4,20

members

15:1759:279:9,1092:2193:6,20122:6126:1,23127:13135:3,6,11,12184:2188:18189:1205:21207:17,21250:23

membrane

85:25101:13,18105:13218:7,8224:7233:22247:23248:2,4,6,22249:10

membranes

187:2

memory

40:1746:22104:10108:1,3111:16117:14122:11

145:1212:8

mentality

9:5

mention

134:1189:8211:20,25

mentioned

86:19134:4197:13

merits

230:11,13,15

message

119:6

met 85:21

90:25137:19178:7182:11207:21247:8249:6

M-hm 46:20

61:25

mic 5:21

mid 162:2

mid/late

147:24

mid-

September

65:9

Mill 201:1

million

6:10 21:122:1,13,24 25:1626:471:1895:12105:2106:7122:12123:6


132:13,14,22133:2,9134:14,22135:19140:14144:1150:6,14152:9154:23163:2,7,11,22,25165:1

millions

96:2121:10

Mills

197:8200:2201:2

Milton

130:24131:17

Milton's

131:20

mind 27:15

68:1082:485:19153:24172:13182:23208:5,9,16 236:13245:6

minor

108:24

minu

215:25

minute

58:12103:25116:19

minutes

15:2316:1624:1925:2,3,5

28:6 78:4113:18117:1,2123:14125:1128:10136:13209:5215:25216:1

minute-

taker

25:8,14

mired

69:18

misappropr

iation

65:25

misinterpr

eted

155:14

missing

125:2

mistaken

120:21

mixed 27:7

modificati

ons

234:15245:23

modified

221:23,24

moment

6:15 13:724:1932:943:1945:2147:470:1993:1395:18179:22207:15238:19

Monday

46:19,25

47:2,10

Monday's

36:10

money 21:5

22:7 24:671:18132:17146:13

month 76:5

114:21

months

76:588:17153:4

mood 16:21

23:1073:675:1276:10,11

morning

107:7,9116:4117:11

mortar

26:15228:5234:7235:17

mostly

169:11221:18242:5

motion

242:24

move

20:4,823:9 24:325:1338:651:2560:2369:1974:19,2576:11100:15102:22134:15

136:1139:16151:8170:11176:13,20

moved 75:9

moving

70:1376:2477:1378:1,5102:14148:10209:1

multi 15:8

111:10121:17

multiple

187:1

multi-

purpose

16:3

multi-use

6:11 10:115:2419:1020:1721:1672:5,9122:2124:11132:10133:10140:22149:10151:9,18213:22

municipal

112:15114:23127:4139:8154:16205:1

municipali

ties

144:24145:1

251:7

municipali

ty

111:15,17124:2132:17,20143:17147:14

municipall

y-led

127:5

MURF 9:9

15:8 21:524:5132:10,11

myself

11:9116:8133:23156:23161:7174:20223:24230:11251:21

N

Nacan

160:18,22,25161:22162:4

name's

110:1

nature

50:2161:763:1496:24100:6105:4122:22175:21177:3,8185:6234:13

necessaril

y 37:16


181:25194:16230:12

necessary

40:9

necessity

65:3 73:8

negotiatio

ns

180:7,12,13,24

Neubauer

2:18

news 7:1

newspaper

6:9

nice 62:7

night

84:19,20116:8

nine 5:8

146:4153:13154:21,25

ninety-two

105:14

nobody

176:14252:24253:13

Nog 180:13

None

112:2,8113:16135:14

normal

125:15

normally

53:16,22170:6185:17

note 16:18

40:2541:463:13

145:9156:23199:2

notes

16:2417:3,7,1023:1427:19

nothing

59:465:24,2580:683:24133:20171:11195:2219:11,18

notice

25:12,1426:845:2195:897:17145:24

noticing

25:1

noting

18:21

notion

86:18233:1

Nove

114:23

November

112:17114:17115:1

nowhere

130:17

now's

209:2

np 2:13

numerous

137:16

O

objective

18:11

objectivit

y

205:19,21

obliged

12:11

obtain

29:4162:5186:5

obtaining

162:19

obvious

176:19

obviously

26:9 53:790:499:16122:23128:3138:2215:5

occasion

13:278:18

occasions

29:1880:16137:16,21138:12

occupancy

247:1,5

occur

81:1588:12

occurred

14:1542:1664:6 88:597:22202:22

occurring

27:2189:21

o'clock

5:8159:12

October

100:11101:3

offended

11:2412:3,5

offer

137:5

offered

134:9

office

46:1550:23108:5

Officer

138:5

oh 34:10

36:1847:1457:2575:2485:1386:491:11156:21

okay 19:14

25:2327:333:1734:10,2235:1,836:2252:658:1061:2068:770:1186:2491:4,1297:5102:3108:15,18113:17114:12125:4126:2

135:18158:7176:22196:19211:11234:16248:18,24

older-

style

248:4

onboard

114:17

ones 57:22

216:8217:9245:21

ongoing

19:2465:6,10,13 71:12220:8

Ontario

1:20144:24

open 73:15

164:23204:18210:23

opened

87:12

opening

86:2187:2,988:18

openings

169:19

openly

184:16

operated

170:21

Operating

138:5

operation

162:11173:20

operations


81:20183:16

opinion

81:22144:8206:20

OPP 110:20

opportunit

ies

178:12

opportunit

y 5:10

15:3,12,18 16:822:1927:1538:748:24113:9114:13136:25169:21204:18206:12242:8

opposed

121:17122:25176:1,14226:12234:12

option

26:22,2528:23,2437:7,886:15132:3143:22146:12187:16188:8,11191:3229:17235:20,23244:16

options

11:17,1916:5,8

23:1728:8,14,23 29:631:2536:13,2438:640:1253:1970:981:1485:24146:23181:17187:8,19190:19213:25214:8,17,18215:1,2,3,14,16216:5,7,14,17,21,22,23,25217:1,6,11 219:15228:17,24229:2251:20252:21

order

10:11139:19146:25181:16221:3224:13,14231:13,19232:22234:7,11

orders

144:4

organizati

on 130:10

138:19231:19

original

203:11

originally

101:19

others

13:1916:652:1575:8137:19

otherwise

55:9

outcome

7:5 9:20253:8

outdoor

18:1321:226:8,2031:16,2166:2567:16187:6,14189:10,17190:19196:8199:8203:1212:10217:12219:17237:21,23238:4,23243:6246:24247:10

outlined

14:245:16

outside

27:21119:18147:5178:7193:15231:13233:8247:23

overall

119:5143:3252:9

overpaid

145:25

overseeing

174:24

P

p.m 34:2

117:5,6159:14,15209:7,8210:13253:25

package

36:11

pad 25:6

74:24199:8,9228:8

page 3:2

4:2 40:2441:1,2,10,11,12,20,21,2244:1971:1103:19104:25145:2,10148:14151:5173:23178:21,25190:18

pages

41:15,17

palatable

23:17

Pam 200:22

paper 28:1

paragraph

6:7,1713:6,1224:2025:1 28:544:1871:7,2474:19,20

101:10107:22,24,25118:15145:10,23157:25158:11,12195:21197:5,21200:20,21210:8,12214:1215:19

parallel

151:7

paralleled

151:21

parallels

120:17

parameters

215:15

pardon

156:20

Park

7:1,2110:2411:1416:2536:9,1281:19,2193:24121:18140:18196:6,9212:15,17213:4,23238:7252:20,23

parks

37:2353:2154:381:20113:2119:25121:24130:12131:20


140:18142:18148:19

parlance

16:11

participan

t 110:1

134:5,14

participan

ts 136:1

participat

e 110:6

154:5162:21207:19237:19

particular

12:2440:23117:14131:25135:13207:12

particular

ly 23:24

235:4

partner

127:8151:11

partnershi

p

127:19,22143:23146:8,22147:6

partnershi

ps 143:12

144:9152:16

party

10:18,21

pass

213:18214:11

passed

228:10

237:18

passing

37:6

passion

120:25128:16130:1

passionate

129:5,13

past 54:14

55:396:18120:3142:19

Pat 201:1

path

120:17

Patrick

197:8

Paul 2:7

3:9 8:13109:24,25110:1,4111:14,19,23112:4,13,21,25113:7,15,17114:6,12,22,25115:4,14,18,23116:1,7,16,20117:8,9,21,22118:1,8,13119:10,24120:16121:5,14,23122:8,17123:3,9,10,24124:6,14,20,22

125:4,7,20,25126:2,4,13127:2,23128:2,7,11,14,15,22129:4,10,17,23130:5131:9,22132:8,9,21133:7,15,19,24134:12,20135:1,18136:12,21138:23139:15140:1,6141:6,11,17,20142:16143:9144:5,7,19 145:9146:15,18,21,25147:18,21148:6,23,24149:19,22150:3,11,18,22152:2,6153:18,22154:3,9,12,20155:9,13156:3,9

pause 5:16

6:2013:9,1424:2329:15,2130:1532:1233:10,1534:8,13,2

4 35:639:3,1343:2244:14,2346:1048:1851:2259:8 61:363:1064:14,2365:1666:2069:2171:375:2376:1777:2578:2479:580:2481:9 85:993:1599:7103:1,11106:21109:11,22112:11113:5116:23117:19118:6,11136:10,19138:21139:24140:4144:17145:7150:20160:1161:24162:13163:4,14164:20165:6,21166:9167:10172:10179:12,18181:5,21182:13183:21

184:13,23185:10,24190:14201:6,16202:5,14204:15,23205:12,24206:3207:4208:13,19210:10214:4,20215:21226:16227:2228:1,19229:4,10230:8232:14238:25239:25240:20241:1,8,14,19242:1

pausing

75:1681:1,6

pay

143:18,19

Pearson

167:13

Penny

125:22

penultimat

e 41:1,12

people 9:7

50:2055:1873:1579:2481:17,19,20,2385:1286:391:21123:20124:2,7,9125:3


126:15136:8137:4138:24139:6142:13154:6,16,25 245:13251:7

percent

142:12214:23

Perfect

33:1

performanc

e 164:11

performing

215:7232:23

perhaps

30:581:2285:2594:1296:16108:1127:3171:10175:21191:11195:13196:22223:10248:19251:14

period

47:148:1449:2150:2555:1056:2085:1391:693:2198:18,20111:23112:4120:8

125:8135:21147:4149:12,18161:14

periods

43:6149:21

peripheral

120:18

permit

194:17,20

person

25:5 27:6125:1,15235:9

personally

195:16244:25

perspectiv

e 77:2

126:25136:5168:21169:6203:23205:8208:3

phase

19:4,1121:22114:4133:12137:1

phased

19:7,1371:19228:8

phased-in

72:6,10

phases

23:8

phasing

23:5,1824:4

phone

58:2161:16

photo

212:17

photograph

s 196:5

photo-op

87:3

photos

196:8197:22

phrase

26:1

physically

58:20

pick 6:1

59:14216:23

picked

25:19121:8

picking

80:16249:2

pictures

187:21,24188:1

piece 25:9

piecing

196:1

piping

220:9,10,24

pitch

80:17

placed

43:1231:24

placing

220:4

plan 15:25

16:328:1436:14,2437:7

53:19134:11

planning

12:2213:1814:13,1415:316:2532:5118:25188:20196:17

plans 21:6

142:19197:11244:20

plant

160:14,18,24161:4,6,8,10,12,14,19163:12164:8,11166:13,14167:5

platform

152:20

play

134:21173:11252:22

players

203:20

please

13:716:1924:2125:1332:1533:734:2,1135:1136:840:2341:4 46:651:9,1952:21

61:6,12,19,21 62:267:870:1878:2179:286:1089:1299:13103:8118:2,3,9129:9136:21140:7145:3,4,5,22148:14151:5,10209:15

pleased

29:1084:25

plethora

91:21

plus 71:18

132:14138:4161:14243:10

point 6:8

14:5,2215:5,8,1616:12,2126:5,14,15 30:548:365:2473:690:1699:5106:6107:16,19111:5123:6141:1142:10143:11146:6,10166:15167:20,22


,24 169:1176:7,23182:1186:15187:7188:7189:16191:5193:21195:3,12196:11197:25199:11,25202:12203:7205:22206:17207:17208:2,4,5211:7217:19219:19,20222:8223:5224:23229:15230:22232:9,19,25 235:25236:3,18,23,24238:6,10,15243:13,17244:21251:13253:17

pointed

99:23

points

153:23234:11

policies

162:10174:5175:6

politely

142:3

politickin

g 12:15

poll 7:20

10:10

pool 18:5

31:16,2062:765:2266:3,8,18,2567:6,11,16 69:1485:2487:16109:2139:20140:9,11141:13,15,22142:7,22143:3199:13203:1212:7,10,14,21213:5,7,11217:12,14219:17220:1,5,9,12,15,22,25221:3,12,23,24222:3,4,8,15,18,21223:1,11,12 224:25225:5226:1,2,20227:5,6,8,19,23231:23,25235:21236:7237:12,21,23238:4,8,12,14,16,17,21,23

243:6,8,9,19246:5,7247:1,6

pools

251:8

Port 147:5

portion

161:12162:10179:3

position

63:1151:17155:7160:9206:25241:4

positions

123:25160:21

positive

12:2065:10193:8

possibilit

y 187:16

189:9196:14203:2

possible

8:1535:2260:1164:1965:2275:1,1076:12,2577:1492:11,1299:3119:17122:20153:9197:17249:18

possibly

14:23

50:457:16104:16126:8

posted

167:5170:14

posting

169:17

potential

36:3135:4,7136:7191:3199:5202:3204:1,19206:16207:18208:2,7212:10214:11230:23236:7

potentiall

y 212:21

Potts

88:2489:3,1790:21

PPT

7:10,11,16

practice

38:2142:20,2455:24172:15

practised

181:25

PRC 37:21

94:11125:17214:24215:2

pre-

circulate

d 31:24

prede

31:23

predecesso

r 142:17

160:18

pre-eng

237:10

pre-

engineere

d 99:24

248:4

prefer

16:560:10

preferable

244:15

preliminar

y

211:1,5,7,21

preparatio

n 32:4

55:1992:2493:8220:18,21

prepare

28:8 76:6224:13

prepared

50:753:1978:19100:19104:18,20106:16

preparing

70:2 97:9

presence

207:15

present

22:823:1753:1096:14


184:21193:23203:21

presentati

on

14:1,4,816:653:3,23107:16108:9127:20

presentati

ons 13:17

52:19

presented

37:9 38:970:892:11104:3107:17173:6198:20216:12218:23252:4

presenting

203:15242:12

press

10:11

pressing

39:19,2240:3

pressure

77:4,10,14,21

pressured

137:6

pretty

19:1750:1453:2,2255:665:2067:1492:22110:18114:23

154:15

prevail

10:2

preventing

194:22

previous

114:14217:25

previously

3:5 5:312:696:11184:7248:1

price 6:10

prices

31:18,2085:20,23

pricing

89:6,13,18 90:7,8158:13210:3243:14

pride

137:4

primarily

162:11

prior

64:2165:479:1587:11105:4126:14160:12166:23177:10,20,23180:11194:10,14,24195:6,12196:11212:9,23215:16217:17

218:15219:10,13221:9225:12

priorities

18:1519:9 76:6151:16

prioritize

d 18:8

priority

17:20,2118:2,6,1225:5

pro 96:11

232:1

proactive

12:19

probabilit

y 145:17

probably

68:1687:1788:5 96:9162:2163:1172:24185:17204:2236:24240:1250:15

problem

27:1652:12204:21

problemati

c 144:13

procedural

186:12

procedure

73:24

procedures

174:5

proceed

5:13

22:20177:7,21178:3,15180:23181:16183:1,5187:8219:14

proceeded

160:25175:7,16,18 176:9

process

11:5,13,21,2273:2476:2381:1682:6,7,1094:19,2396:22,2397:9115:12123:12,13129:21137:17,18138:14139:5150:23151:15155:4,11,16,22156:2,13161:9,11163:7,9,17,19,21,23,25164:2,10,17,24165:1170:12,14173:2,5175:25206:17208:6,10,23 232:1233:3237:2241:5,10

processes

166:20,21169:18176:1202:8

processing

12:7

proclaimed

230:19

Procter

33:19

Proctor

3:5 5:36:6,247:12 9:1510:5,14,17,2011:7,1212:4,16,21,2513:3,20,24 14:5,1615:9,2016:1,9,13,2117:6,11,17,2218:7,18,2519:12,20,2520:10,2221:7,1922:2,1523:1,4,1324:1,1225:10,2126:6,11,17 27:1,1728:3,16,2129:1,8,1230:3,1831:2332:7,1733:1,5,17,2534:3,10,17,2235:1,8,19,25


36:5,15,18,22,2537:3,13,22 38:1,2039:10,2540:6,1841:742:7,2343:8,1644:2545:8,12,25 46:2047:2,8,14,19,2348:2,6,1249:4,14,23 50:1751:4,1752:1,6,9,13,2453:5,8,13,2554:5,9,2155:11,2056:3,13,2357:10,13,2058:2,4,8,1559:5,1760:1,8,1761:11,18,25 62:2163:4,17,23 64:9,2565:7,1266:4,2267:7,18,22,2568:4,7,1369:6,1670:4,10,1575:16,21,24 76:1477:1,7,16,22 78:1679:17,2180:1,7,12,18

81:1,5,1182:2,8,1983:1,3,13,1884:11,14,2385:1,4,2286:6,13,2587:8,13,2288:7,13,19 89:2090:10,13,2291:1,7,1392:2,10,14,1693:1,994:9,2095:596:1,6,1097:2,11,25 98:4,1999:3,20100:1,24101:4,22102:6103:3,6,16104:2,12,21 105:6106:12107:8,9,19,24108:2,10,15,18109:5,8,25 110:3111:12,18,21112:2,8,19,24113:3,13,16114:5,9,19,24115:2,13,16117:9,25119:8,21

120:12121:4,12,21122:4,14123:22124:4,12,15,21125:17,22126:3,11,18127:15,25128:4,21129:3,8,16,20130:2,7131:15132:18133:4,13,18,22134:9,17,24 135:14136:3138:18139:13140:25141:10,16,18142:11143:5144:2,6146:9,17,20,24147:17,19148:4,18149:17,20,23150:8,16151:25152:4153:15,21154:2,7,11,18155:6,10,24 156:9158:22

Proctor's

128:12

procuremen

t 53:11

97:8,17,1

9,2198:10,2499:1162:6,8,10,21165:2169:13173:12,19,20174:25175:7177:1202:8208:3

procuremen

ts 164:1

171:16172:7173:3175:16,18176:9177:13

produced

101:3106:3113:23

producing

166:6

product

198:20202:18203:8,16208:7

profession

al 63:25

64:3,765:13130:18137:10

profession

als 138:7

program

149:6150:10,12,17166:4,7

programmin

g 142:14

programs

147:20,23148:20149:24,25150:5

project

17:1 19:620:14,1821:5,17,18 22:2123:1124:470:1471:977:1282:1699:15,17122:16127:1136:1150:9164:1,4,5,7 166:24170:2,4175:21178:11202:17220:8,18221:11236:16246:19252:7,8

projects

19:523:23130:21146:3161:1166:5168:5169:4,9171:22172:15

prompt

73:25

proper

18:5134:19


152:25156:1

properly

57:15137:15159:3

proponent

134:5

proponents

135:12

proposal

9:8 10:1132:10

Proposals

171:2,14172:5

proposed

226:23

proposing

142:23

proprietar

y 163:8

prospect

10:1

prospects

9:11

protocol

42:13

prove

231:17,18

provide

25:17110:9122:24128:9131:24198:7,10,14,22210:1245:14248:7

provided

28:754:17,2187:23109:9

120:24128:22129:1180:9181:7193:11195:8196:4209:24211:12,21212:6213:16218:17219:9,21,24 228:23235:1,3238:6240:14

providers

133:1

provides

141:25247:5

providing

27:19,22128:25134:5180:22181:1183:18

Province

147:8,13149:8

provincial

142:5147:6150:15

provision

183:4193:19

provisions

170:21

PT 7:10

public

15:1882:18110:20165:4

167:21183:24

public/

private

146:21

pull 14:10

24:2170:2178:2199:12172:1178:20214:1

pulled

41:2

pulling

122:10172:3

pump

220:10,24

pumping

225:5

purchase

174:25175:4176:25178:3203:24

purchases

162:18177:21,23178:13

purchasing

160:4168:19169:6,10170:17171:1,5,13 172:2173:23174:1,2,4,9,10,14,15175:8,15181:16187:1203:24

233:21

purp 75:6

purport

72:15

purpose

15:222:1875:688:1198:15198:15

purposes

101:17112:23171:19,24

pursue

208:8216:4221:10228:24229:1

pursuing

147:6229:16,25230:5

purview

184:7186:7,9

putting

76:1093:25122:25123:1127:13208:16217:8219:16222:2224:6225:2

Q

qualify

149:8

qualifying

147:25

quarter

209:12

quasi

140:22

question

7:2010:1025:2335:9 40:141:852:1860:9,10,11,12,14,18 61:2066:5 67:869:4,870:182:2084:2,988:11108:19,21113:8133:5134:19153:16,19155:12156:20176:24177:9,18186:11,12,14201:20203:11207:24208:1216:2219:25223:11,23224:24

questioner

s 157:1

questionin

g 8:21

122:24139:16,20

questions

40:765:1978:1793:2


96:15105:7,8106:24107:13109:14,17111:2135:2,5155:11156:14,15,24 159:5183:8191:13193:7209:1211:18213:15

quibble

90:4

quick 23:3

52:17

quickly

21:1075:1,1076:12,2577:13150:23

quite 8:20

57:461:1483:1686:1798:3143:15147:24148:2155:24197:16

quote 86:5

quotes

86:1,14

R

R-30 102:2

raise

112:6154:4192:4206:16

209:18240:12

raised

97:17121:25135:5,10137:17138:12211:22240:17

raising

136:17138:16155:17204:8240:13

ran 250:13

range

126:24

rather

24:5

rating

190:1194:3

rationale

122:1

re 27:8,11

110:14115:23222:24

reach

111:8

reached

251:18

re-

acquainte

d 131:1

reaction

158:21

reading

8:2

ready

5:9,137:18170:11

real 190:8

really

12:13,1415:1,12,24 22:2324:266:1371:2472:1,7,1694:397:22103:19108:8,21114:7143:17,24148:25149:13153:16159:2183:24201:21223:4224:8

reason

37:17,2070:2115:3117:10147:3155:21190:8193:17206:15230:3,6240:11

reasonably

57:559:20

reasons

54:10140:9

rebuilt

222:22

rec 54:3

119:25121:24142:18

recall

13:2316:1 17:626:1727:2330:4 37:339:2140:1342:8 46:156:760:9,1768:175:17,2582:8,22,25 83:586:1388:13,2089:20,2394:13,2497:898:3,2599:20100:24105:7,16107:18108:12110:21112:3114:3,6,9,10115:3,5119:5,19120:19121:2,5,7,11,12,15122:5,6,8,13124:6,9125:20135:13,15140:13,16,24,25141:3,19147:10148:6,18159:2,3161:20167:7,15170:23177:10,15179:22182:22

184:20185:3186:24187:15,23,25188:4,6,24 189:7192:1,12,16,24195:15,18,19196:10197:13,14,19199:4,14,15200:7,16201:3,10203:2,5204:7207:9,16209:23210:3,17,19 213:9218:14231:4237:13,25238:12239:8240:6,10242:22251:10,17

recalled

157:11

recalling

47:10188:21198:16,18

receive

170:16171:7172:6

received

7:23 43:661:2369:13,15116:3170:19172:3180:10


181:10

receiving

210:17,19

recent

150:17

recently

251:8

reception

115:8

recessing

78:9117:5159:14209:7

recognize

142:2

recollect

69:7

recollecti

on 27:18

66:2370:597:12101:5104:4,13,22 107:20109:4119:9,22122:5127:22157:10197:17198:18200:12201:9,21,25 207:12210:5211:15214:9225:15

recommend

121:1206:11216:25

recommenda

tion

35:22

36:3134:3206:13216:14

recommenda

tions

38:13,1739:7121:6127:12213:23

recommende

d 38:5

62:14134:23216:5,7,22,23217:1244:16

recommendi

ng 168:25

219:14

reconnecte

d 131:8

record

17:963:24250:20

records

138:15,19168:21

recovery

223:9

recreation

24:1637:2453:21,22113:2130:12140:19148:19,21150:1166:25187:2,17188:19189:1213:19,22214:12

249:22

recreation

al 22:21

23:2327:16120:1,8123:21124:3126:16,17127:6129:14132:23140:22150:6,14151:2,8

redevelopm

ent 213:4

Re-Direct

3:10157:7

redo

224:9,10

redoing

222:24

reelected

114:16

re-

examinati

on 156:22

reexamine

119:15

refer

74:18107:22124:10

reference

81:1891:4128:9135:17157:20

referenced

131:23171:1

referencin

g 157:20

referring

93:11105:24179:6189:13207:2

reflect

12:8190:22

reflected

28:589:2192:598:11

reflects

210:13

refresh

108:1,3111:16117:13212:8

refurbishi

ng 18:13

142:19

regard

11:4119:5

regarded

11:8

regardless

11:21

regards

187:10209:16

regular

144:11178:8185:19

regularly

144:22

regulation

s 225:6

Reid

128:19

reinforces

143:1

146:5

reinvestin

g 146:13

relate

185:3

related

93:3110:19111:9,25123:11135:3,6139:17143:12149:16175:6189:25

relates

123:21138:14139:7

relating

196:14

relation

176:25

relationsh

ip 64:4

65:10,13130:19131:13

relationsh

ips

126:14135:11

relative

166:12206:24

relocating

22:9

remainder

49:21

remained

63:25

remarks

72:1575:5,7,8

remember


14:6 19:460:1475:1899:19105:3110:16114:20122:14178:9189:3191:17,23192:7193:4200:2,13208:1223:21235:2

rememberin

g 117:11

renovation

169:4,9

repeat

40:1 67:877:7111:3123:22150:4

repeated

75:14

replace

220:24226:19

replacemen

t 168:25

replied

8:12

reply 7:24

12:17

report

15:1439:2340:4,5,7,17,22,2441:3,1142:4,6,16,19,2550:7,1551:2

54:18,2255:16,19,2356:1,4,6,16,2157:1,5,759:162:1963:266:1870:3 73:874:2384:2292:2493:8,2197:10,14,2499:14,16,19,21100:5,7,12,16,22101:24,25102:7,9,11105:5,11,15,18,24106:3,9,16 130:16145:21167:17168:6,12173:7,8190:17,18191:1208:17227:22237:21239:4,10,11252:4,11,20 253:9

reported

82:23,2583:6,8,10,15,21,23167:25

reporting

183:11232:21236:14

reports

19:1642:14,20,21 55:2456:284:1999:11

representa

tion

234:17

representa

tive

164:5167:12

representa

tives

124:23125:11196:21197:20199:19200:4201:12,14,22203:20231:2232:8

represente

d 124:24

representi

ng 107:11

125:9

reps 112:6

reputation

137:10

req 190:4

request

107:25115:22116:4158:13211:10240:23

requested

248:3

require

231:14

required

76:1109:1225:14234:11

requiremen

t 181:15

191:22

requiremen

ts

191:15,18,24 193:9194:5,18232:21234:3239:19246:25247:7249:6

res 222:4

research

89:25217:25236:1249:3,9

researchin

g 238:22

reserves

143:20

residents

72:3127:7129:7,15152:3

resigned

124:22

resolution

66:267:15228:9237:18238:13

resolution

s 213:18

214:11

resolve

24:1727:8

resource

174:8

resources

171:14

respect

9:9,1313:515:7,1822:2023:2427:1631:1,1539:7,17,22 46:755:2459:1662:1865:2166:14,1770:1373:776:2177:6,1189:5,1093:7 95:898:8100:13101:21102:18110:14162:5164:15174:24177:12186:21187:14190:19213:19214:11,25235:16

respected

127:8129:20,24130:2137:24138:8


respectful

64:1,465:13

respectful

ly 43:1

respond

12:1115:4138:10

responding

51:11212:12

response

15:14,2416:2 58:962:20,24128:12137:19139:1140:15193:8211:10243:23

responsibi

lities

55:9168:17

responsibi

lity

174:19,20175:13206:12

responsibl

e 26:2

139:4,5174:3,12175:5203:24

responsive

93:2

rest 34:20

58:1362:23103:5170:12

restate

57:20

result

6:16 66:269:2577:5,10200:23216:2245:3

resulted

222:4225:17

results

7:22 23:3129:5,6190:22250:20

resuming

78:10117:6159:15209:8

return

191:3

returning

46:16

revenue

144:11

review

48:2476:20107:23108:8,21113:10120:13170:9194:7,10,13

reviewed

109:9

reviewing

37:1438:239:1642:15

revised

13:17

revisions

170:6

RFP

164:17,24171:20207:20,21

RFPs

169:14,24

RFQ 171:22

RFQs

169:14,24

Rick 17:16

29:2431:1,14210:14

right-size

119:6

rink 18:14

21:231:16,21187:6196:8199:8246:24247:10

risk

145:20176:18205:9,20206:1

road

144:25207:20213:22

roads

144:24149:13

Rob 124:24

126:8

Robert

14:10

robust

245:21

role 13:22

14:1329:3134:21

164:1167:20171:4173:10,19183:13253:4

roles

162:20

rolled

248:6

rolling

168:22

roof 21:2

66:3 67:669:13,14234:7

roofs

26:2567:11,13,15,2068:4,9,12

room

222:21223:18224:1225:21226:7238:8

rooms

140:23225:2226:20227:13

roster

179:15

route

153:14

row 5:24

46:4

rules

162:4

rush 70:2

72:21,2373:20

rushing

155:16

Ryan 2:14

209:13,17

S

sake 89:23

120:7

sale 161:9

204:19

sales

187:20

salesmen

203:18204:18

salvaged

223:4

Sandra 2:9

52:15107:11200:25

Sara 79:9

95:10

sat 124:9

130:10,21

satisfacto

rily

226:8

satisfy

213:6250:2

satisfying

239:18

Saunders

6:24 7:2512:12

Saunderson

9:22124:17125:5,24128:18

Saunderson

's 8:7

saved

113:18

savings


119:17

saw 89:7,8

100:25158:14197:22230:15249:6

scale

162:21

scan

145:2,3

scenario

132:3

scenarios

143:22

schedule

5:12185:21

schematics

166:20

scheme

252:23

science

145:17

scope

170:4221:18225:10,12

scrambling

94:3

screen

30:8 79:3118:14140:7141:21214:7

scroll

41:21102:23103:3,4,8,22118:2,3136:21149:3178:22179:24

190:20214:7215:24

scrolling

178:25

search

116:8250:20

searched

250:16

searches

250:5,8,13,20,23

searching

250:9

seat

209:18

second

16:1822:5 26:8140:1175:12217:3

secondary

63:13

section

173:24178:22179:5,14

sections

179:9,20

secure

151:2

securing

121:10

seeing

22:1759:19100:25101:5105:3192:9

seem

9:9,1916:2345:20

57:3,663:1364:1765:2 73:582:589:6,1991:4128:10138:7151:22155:15191:23

seemed

148:2

seems

9:5,2310:916:1017:11,1919:1520:321:4,12,15,2441:1549:172:1281:2585:11105:12106:8137:24158:18

seen

100:23101:2103:15104:5,10117:13132:13171:1214:15

segueway

116:17

seldom

241:12242:3,4

selected

126:23217:11

239:6

selection

216:17

send 170:8

sending

197:22,24

sense

16:2023:2224:1056:2163:1473:786:1887:4 92:8139:4,8,12 166:16175:15178:10192:22205:5214:23215:11220:16230:23237:15250:7,12251:4

sensitive

111:1

sent 29:19

33:2448:2264:1790:2094:1098:7108:10158:15196:6200:24210:14211:7,17212:13,17

sentence

36:19

separate

44:3

210:4

September

1:2364:18,21112:23113:1128:3

series

25:4171:18196:5229:13

serious

244:13

serve

137:11

served

137:22

serves

122:11174:7

service

71:11114:2121:1132:25137:5

services

25:18124:3126:17135:24141:24149:16174:13180:9,19

servicing

129:14

session

12:2313:1814:3,1416:2517:5188:20196:17

sets


179:25213:17

setting

207:14,15

seven

105:13117:12

seventh

41:19

seventy

146:1

several

26:1932:24121:10130:9,20141:4,19178:6

Seymour

85:1888:2489:3,1790:21197:7,10,14 200:5

share

38:7,23113:19188:18240:7

shared

87:24174:20218:17

shed 127:4

she'd 94:2

shelved

190:8

she's

51:1179:10,1380:5138:3139:6

short 96:3

124:22

125:8127:14129:18132:24239:13,16

shortly

127:25211:17

shovels

7:5 9:2087:2

shower

224:11

shown

58:16

shows

216:2

shrink

148:11

shut 141:5

161:4253:16

shutting

142:25

sic 6:24

7:2568:2487:15122:1143:12,23144:9146:7

sick 95:14

sig 27:7

sign

40:3,9,10,1642:4,1855:2256:1,2,3,12

signals

27:7

signatures

42:5,10

signed

42:9,11225:19

signif

222:17

significan

t 13:22

14:1329:3 43:550:5113:22114:8121:25132:16,19133:11134:21150:5152:19182:22225:16

significan

tly

222:16,17

signing

39:2242:20,2556:4,11

sign-off

42:9

silver

230:20234:3,14

silver's

234:8

similar

120:4126:6162:22171:10216:1248:3

similarly

219:2237:4,7

simple

99:5248:23

simpler

243:15

simplicity

230:17

simplistic

248:21

simply

27:1457:368:8,2174:1298:14137:11138:10146:5233:21

single

178:12199:8

single-pad

202:25

sit 130:24

131:20156:12

site 88:6

121:8,9164:5220:20,21

sites

81:19196:3

sitting

24:7119:19154:21156:4158:24200:15

situation

17:20,23

situations

180:3

six 125:15

size

132:17226:24

sizeable

132:24135:20140:10

Skelton

125:22

skew 111:1

slide

13:1714:3107:16108:9,24214:16235:14

slides

13:5 14:6

slightly

142:4

slow 118:3

slowly

100:16118:2

small

135:8

smaller

19:1021:6127:17

snippets

119:2

so-called

145:15

soft 149:8

sole

177:22,23178:16180:19181:17182:10,22183:3,5202:18203:3,7

solution

23:1824:392:11


93:25134:6,14,22 152:9248:7

solutions

24:7

somebody

245:16

somehow

5:12

someone

55:25123:2181:18182:3193:18194:22226:4

someone's

209:11

sometime

6:2387:1788:5105:4112:14,16,23

somewhat

113:23121:17

somewhere

45:14112:17,19166:1

sorry 7:12

8:2311:2017:2236:1839:24,2547:3,12,14 48:949:4 50:252:460:1866:4,567:7,2569:18

86:5,1287:19108:7,14116:8118:8128:5129:23133:4,21136:22145:3,10148:8149:19158:2165:24179:24181:18201:1224:21225:20252:1253:23

sort 28:14

83:20110:24115:11116:17123:12125:14141:8,12149:10152:7162:8173:8183:17202:9250:18252:16

sorts

84:18

sought

134:4177:12

sound

118:24125:15

sounded

137:16

sounding

19:15,16

sounds

108:3188:23200:4,11

source

177:22,23178:13180:19,20182:10,22183:3,5203:3,7

sources

90:14141:4,19144:3146:11

sourcing

178:16181:17202:18

speak

11:7,827:1585:4 94:9128:10134:24149:24157:23177:1186:11,12251:6

speakers

54:2

speaking

8:1510:25129:24185:4196:22247:21

speaks

179:15

spec

164:11

special

245:13

specialize

d 245:13

specialtie

s 184:3

specific

16:2 30:438:2294:1497:11110:16,22112:7113:11,13135:4,14171:24185:3197:17201:9,24207:6,12212:15220:7,12237:22238:14243:7247:7

specifical

ly 56:7

66:1,1789:14110:24119:14120:2141:3182:7195:19215:1219:19228:6235:2237:10249:11

speculate

139:13

speech

115:12,20117:13

speed

92:18,23

spend

173:15

spending

22:7,12,24 26:4114:1132:2

spent

99:10135:19

spite

95:21

spoke

13:2214:6,18,20 30:359:13133:16

spoken

178:18

sporting

154:5

sports

246:1249:12

spread

190:1194:3

sprinklers

190:6191:22

Sprung

31:19,2085:13,16,2190:9,11,17,21,2591:5,20,21,25 92:8162:22166:23177:11,21,24 183:2187:10,11,16,21188:5,22191:2,12192:2,4,8


,13,25193:5,11194:25195:24196:11,20197:7,8,14,19,22,24198:8,10,14199:5,20201:12,14,23203:15,23208:10209:24210:1,2,15,18211:7,13,20212:6,24217:17,20218:4219:4,21,23 220:4222:9228:7,22229:16230:1,5,11,24231:1,5,7,24 232:7233:1,9,14 234:13235:8,10,24 236:2243:9,10245:19246:7,10249:7,21,25250:3,23251:2,12,19252:16,18253:2

Sprung's

246:7

Sprung-

style

219:17

Sprung-

type

219:9

stable

144:11

stack 7:21

staff

10:18,2314:9 27:628:8 30:232:435:2236:337:8,1238:12,13,14 40:5,741:350:5,7,1553:2054:18,2255:2456:1665:2166:1,767:4,1069:1273:874:2277:4,10,14,1984:2285:2393:897:10,14105:5109:1119:14120:3124:25125:1126:7,8137:3,25139:7173:7175:6183:11190:16,18202:24

205:21206:9,14207:17208:16,17215:10216:4,16,18,22,24217:7218:23219:14221:10227:17,20235:15,19236:6,13,20 237:20239:4244:25250:23251:23252:4,11

staff's

217:6241:22

stage

18:1021:16,25227:9,10237:3244:4

staged

21:13

stand 5:9

108:13117:2

standalone

109:2

standard

42:13137:19142:20

standards

175:24221:4245:10

STANDS

159:9

starch

160:18,24

166:13

start 5:13

21:14,1732:2533:451:17126:5180:11207:23227:18,23

started

111:20112:14127:18128:1130:8136:16160:24168:6172:13224:23243:18

starting

160:23222:7

starts

71:24145:23

startup

161:13

state

60:12119:2133:5194:1

stated

25:2443:1660:1896:11193:7

statement

54:2055:166:1372:1873:1996:5,7

122:21134:16143:16146:8,10251:5

statements

73:22137:14155:12235:8

state-of-

the-union

119:14

states

174:20

stating

17:21

status

14:1

stay 18:22

50:20

stayed

161:10252:24

staying

179:24

steel

99:17105:18234:6247:22248:22

steered

128:24

steering

9:7 10:2411:1415:1416:3120:22,23124:10126:6127:14128:17,20135:12213:23215:6


252:20253:8

step

207:14

Stepping

182:6

steps

28:7,19231:12236:21

stick

149:15

stint

114:14

stock

168:22

stop

151:10209:12

stopped

161:16

storage

101:15

story

120:14

strateg

15:2

strategic

12:2213:1814:1415:316:25130:25131:20188:20196:17

strategy

18:12

streams

144:11,12

Street

1:19 19:5

strong

119:6

123:25129:2

strongly

123:18

structural

234:6247:22

structure

31:2166:18,2585:2599:18105:18173:7187:7189:10,11,19,20,23190:3191:15193:8194:2212:6213:11217:14219:17220:4,13222:9224:8225:3226:5,9,11,23228:6,7,12230:18,24231:24233:1,22234:13235:17,18,24 236:9237:11249:11

structures

65:2266:8,12,16 68:1287:1690:299:25162:22187:11,16

,22 188:5199:5210:15,20,23 211:4218:24219:4237:5,8244:14

struggle

151:22152:1,2

struggling

137:13138:13

studies

23:9

studios

140:23

stuff

110:25119:3125:16152:8153:1155:2

stuffing

10:10

style

217:21,23218:4228:5237:10245:11,23246:4,6247:20248:9,15,20249:6,10,17,21

subject

183:25205:19

submitted

41:4,6,842:1443:1 57:5

subparagra

ph 173:25

180:2,4

subsection

180:16182:10183:2,3

subsequent

107:24119:12150:12163:11169:20189:3196:20,23197:1

subsequent

ly 152:21

substantia

l 87:11

92:22110:18143:18

substantiv

e 148:12

successful

9:8,1111:6121:10

sufficient

239:9

suggest

32:2446:2457:1863:23123:18

suggested

38:2 58:382:1683:4105:12108:4137:15145:24253:16

suggesting

12:1

145:14

suggestion

42:1855:2592:5188:10

suggests

97:21

suit 47:15

221:23

suitable

245:24

summaries

74:4

summarized

94:14

summary

17:2528:7

summer

168:2176:7

superior

230:13235:3

supervised

164:13

supervisio

n 169:8

supplier

180:12202:3204:1207:18,21208:2

suppliers

243:11246:4247:25248:12

supplier's

207:19

support

62:1576:1,2


126:7,8133:9143:21145:19147:9150:6,14174:8

supported

118:24189:20

supporters

122:1

supporting

63:1135:22

supportive

62:13,17

suppose

117:1164:4187:9206:5233:25

supposed

236:13

sure 7:13

11:11,2030:1145:2252:1158:4,7,13,15 83:1086:891:2593:6103:16114:23115:7117:25119:25124:20134:18139:5,6147:10149:18150:25169:2170:22

182:1,25246:5

surface

26:9,2062:7152:25

surprise

55:1390:19,23

surprised

140:17

surround

166:22

suspect

139:3140:9142:1

suspecting

211:2

swearing

115:5,6

swell 15:6

swim 213:6

221:23

swimmers

224:12

swimming

224:14,15

switching

127:17

sworn

3:5,125:3 115:2159:20

synthesize

28:12

system

101:13190:21222:25247:23

systems

12:8222:16,25223:8,9

225:4,5

T

table 3:1

27:21129:25130:1,4132:3152:10154:21156:7200:14224:9

tag 6:10

taking

11:2520:1729:3 48:475:692:2493:7110:5145:11156:11157:3

talk 6:13

16:4,826:935:23119:15183:1188:18

talked

59:1879:1192:1899:23100:4,5105:17217:7,25230:19253:5

talking

6:6,89:9,19,2310:917:2526:13,1431:13

35:2366:972:8,975:2188:23100:7114:4179:3205:14223:25237:9239:22

talks

101:15141:24180:5

tasked

166:14227:21

tasks

252:14

taxpayers

21:22

teaching

209:11

team 54:16

55:4,8,15,17 161:5164:4221:23

technical

102:1170:13190:2

technologi

st

165:11,12

template

171:20,23

templates

170:2171:18,21,23,24

ten 71:17

78:4209:5215:13

216:21,22,25

tend 111:1

112:22

tended

148:9,11149:8

tender

165:4171:21178:4,8202:17

tendering

169:18178:24179:4,10180:1

tenders

169:14,23

tends

204:17

term

113:25132:24149:18165:11

terminated

168:9

terms

42:2451:1110:10,21111:1116:20117:14119:2120:5,25123:19124:1,2129:5131:25132:25134:2135:16137:4,23138:2140:10143:16,25


147:9,25151:7,21152:7153:5,22169:10174:18176:8177:7189:22190:1225:9227:21239:1242:5243:18

testimony

97:7113:22123:16133:16155:19

thank 8:25

9:17 10:813:1214:1715:1116:1517:13,2318:9,1920:1,1321:2027:3 28:433:1,5,7,19 34:2135:4 37:538:2541:2344:1147:750:1851:552:2,5,13,25 53:1554:1155:2157:1160:3,2164:5,1065:1,1469:17

70:2475:2476:1577:17,2378:6 80:382:383:14,1984:4,2485:790:12,15,2492:4,1593:1095:7 97:599:5100:8101:7102:17103:8,20104:23105:9106:19,25107:1,3,4109:14,15,17110:5,11119:10,24123:4,7124:14128:12129:17131:9,22133:15,24135:1136:22139:15141:7142:16143:9145:22148:24150:18156:14159:6,7209:13

thanking

65:2,5

thanks

89:15197:9

theatre

215:7

theirs

142:9

theme

114:10119:5

themes

113:25114:8

themselves

143:19151:17170:8

therapeuti

c 139:19

140:9,11141:13,22142:7,22143:3,6221:24

therapy

141:23

there'd

14:20,22,24 83:2495:24212:9

therefore

43:10

there's

9:2514:1919:2 20:925:1231:1341:1542:2058:2563:565:2467:1274:8,2080:6 84:991:21115:8,10119:1120:13

138:11142:12144:10145:4,11151:7,16179:14180:18190:20196:13201:22202:23211:17233:19,20

they'd

55:17198:12246:5

they'll

247:22

they're

13:637:2199:16100:7133:23139:2153:5,7196:16206:11230:12241:24245:13252:3

They've

149:7

thi 27:18

242:24

thin 75:17

third 18:2

20:3118:14167:14

thirdly

111:10

thirty

115:7138:4

147:13,14

thirty-

three

147:13

thoughts

15:16

thousand

105:1,2,13 106:7130:15220:23

throughout

75:14144:22

throw

141:12

ths 211:7

Thursday

253:20,23

tight

43:1150:776:3,8,994:22242:9

timeline

50:7219:20221:11

timelines

50:13

timely

23:1175:10

timeslot

185:21

tired

95:15

title 41:2

42:25130:13

titled

173:25

TOC0034069

4:16


TOC0172248

88:25

TOC0172251

30:24

TOC0172486

4:3 16:19

TOC0183198

4:4 30:1232:10

TOC0189770

78:22

TOC0190573

46:8

TOC0201266

99:12

TOC0202597

48:16

TOC0204989

4:6 51:9

TOC0207166

4:7 61:1

TOC0215881

4:8 64:12

TOC0226261

.0001.000

1 100:14

TOC0517154

172:2

TOC0600196

102:22

TOC182487

157:15

TOC34069

190:12

TOC517154

178:21

TOCO182487

4:15

TOCO226261

.0001.000

1 4:9

today 72:5

75:395:14

104:6132:13182:19,24209:18218:1

to-day

169:2

Tom

192:12,14197:6,9200:25

tomorrow

52:16

top 21:13

34:1741:3101:11104:1182:23191:10220:4222:9226:5,13231:24

topic

86:1796:16158:24

topics

215:5

Toronto

130:8,13,19

totally

133:6146:20

touch 39:6

50:20120:17150:23

towards

114:20151:2202:18252:17

town

1:2,17

2:1310:1818:619:4,9,2426:4107:15108:7120:2122:20126:17127:17,18130:24131:17132:23133:12134:6135:8,9160:4,13167:3,5169:12170:16171:17172:7,14,17 173:12175:15177:12,23178:3,14183:16,25186:25187:1189:8190:5193:12,15,19194:22199:23,24200:3,6206:25207:22243:25

Town's

167:22203:16207:20

track

157:1

traditiona

l 81:13

123:13163:18,21

202:17228:5234:6237:10245:7,11,23 249:17

trail

37:1551:1852:4

trails

138:11

training

166:3170:16,18,24 171:8172:4,6

transcript

3:1943:1944:3,1860:2270:17,20,22 71:172:14,16,1873:13,14

transferre

d 213:7

transition

161:5

travel

110:6

travels

152:13

treasurer

81:12153:7172:25175:10177:4,8186:11

treasury

175:9

treatment

19:5163:12,25

164:8,11,16

tremendous

126:9

tried

153:19250:16

tripartite

147:11

trouble

62:2563:6127:17158:2

trucks

168:23

Trudell

2:17109:16,17

true

11:12,18,21 153:1234:1

truss

247:23248:22

trusses

247:24

truthfully

88:19

try 6:1

9:2328:1274:1991:19,24110:24124:13126:25175:23204:19250:11

trying

8:15 12:716:2027:2568:10,23


75:1784:2290:16112:1116:7,21118:21119:6120:8,25131:24132:11138:6141:8,22146:6150:3,24151:2159:2176:20205:4237:14

tub 223:4

Tucker

128:18

Tucker-

Reid 6:25

7:8,248:12 10:9124:17125:6,24129:12,24130:6131:1,12

Tucker-

Reid's

8:3

Tuesday

46:1649:7,13,15

tune 146:1

turn

6:7,1532:945:2246:6 51:870:17190:11195:20210:7

turnaround

43:1194:22

turned

45:5 59:1

turnkey

210:15

turns

83:23

twe 244:24

twelve

41:15105:1,2,19 106:7

twenty

120:3,7

twin 199:9

type 26:18

90:2230:11237:11247:1,5

types

192:21218:24228:11236:7239:23244:14246:19248:14

typical

81:16101:14

typically

11:1 83:496:15115:8154:4

U

U.S 251:16

ultimate

175:13

ultimately

72:4

189:24

unaware

101:8

uncertain

64:20

underlined

96:24

underneath

248:6

understand

5:6 15:2217:235:1738:862:1063:872:2573:5,18,20 74:1176:482:17111:7118:18127:5132:2,11133:6138:23155:25156:1160:8,13173:11177:6183:18209:11223:16235:19236:5,10,13 237:15243:4

understand

ing

65:3,6120:1153:11154:15,19155:2178:2181:11,25182:8

183:12184:6186:4198:7205:5216:15227:20228:10,14,16229:15231:12232:3,6,25 236:19237:16251:12

understood

76:2127:9134:7137:15167:20177:17181:15231:23235:15

undertook

190:23

underway

112:22

undesirabl

e 180:2

undue

205:18

unfortunat

e 65:25

uninsulate

d 101:13

union

253:16

unique

65:2567:12151:1176:1202:9,11

unlikely

56:15

unroot

141:8

Unsolicite

d

171:2,14172:4

unsure

193:3201:18

unusual

57:7 67:368:1,6,2569:1282:20

upgrade

220:8,23

upgraded

234:10

Upon 5:1

78:9,10117:5,6159:14,15209:7,8253:25

upper-tier

149:12150:5152:11

upsets

94:3

urgency

20:923:2224:1073:7,25

useful

5:19 73:5

users

251:18

usual

55:2367:19

Utility

167:23

V


vacation

43:4,9,1345:1546:350:1254:8,1360:279:16,2380:492:2098:18,2099:2

vacations

59:2595:22

vague

119:22

vaguely

135:15

valid

37:17

valuation

145:20

value 92:2

145:15230:17

valued

129:18,25

varied

175:19,20,21248:23

variety

91:22

various

70:1275:15146:23,24148:5152:13162:4169:11171:19213:18244:13246:17,18,20

vehicle

122:24

venting

95:13

ver 67:18

verbal

180:10,23

Verbally

234:23

verboten

38:15

verify

193:10,14,18 233:8

versus

123:12237:11

vested

135:25

vi 223:11

viability

190:24223:11

viable

24:7226:6

view 11:6

18:4 20:632:395:9,2097:20166:15167:22,24169:1204:13239:9,13,15 240:8

views

22:2070:13196:7

vision

17:20

vocal

24:14

137:4

voice

15:13

Voigt

14:10

vote 216:2

218:15

voted

62:15,19

voting

219:14

W

wait

116:19

waiting

24:7

walk 120:4

153:19156:12

warehouse

163:1

warm

141:14

warranted

221:17,25225:11

wasn't

56:1158:2063:2088:796:1198:12123:2131:3141:12178:3186:2202:16204:3206:19,20211:22216:11222:24223:5240:23

249:5250:2

waste

164:11,16

wastewater

149:7,14163:12,25164:8

watched

120:18

watching

172:21

water

17:2018:2,4,8,11,2219:523:2474:6 75:9141:14144:10149:6,13152:24153:9154:25

ways 9:10

we'd

170:10231:2

Wednesday

49:1563:22

wee 118:9

145:3149:4

week 7:20

48:1464:2165:4112:17185:19196:1,11

weekend

46:18

weeks

45:5,6,11

,13,2346:3 47:148:1,3,4,8 50:2454:14,1555:3,1556:1994:2113:11185:20

weight

140:23

we'll 5:25

6:1,1316:1721:1024:1945:1662:669:1978:483:20102:21104:15,16105:10116:11,19117:2148:16156:9198:21,22209:4,11238:18

wellness

220:18

Wendy

81:20254:9

we're

17:2420:727:1830:2131:1334:1935:2345:18,2151:1568:15,1686:9


116:4172:2205:14215:23

West

18:20,2435:1637:6 38:493:2394:10,18,25 136:17

wether

251:19

we've

19:3,820:2423:8,965:1272:13,14,1674:16,17116:5123:16136:24,25138:24144:23157:22171:1212:24217:18224:23

WGD

79:12,15,20,2580:6,8,2199:12100:13,22101:12,18,24 106:2252:2,11

whatever

90:7153:4169:20183:25184:17185:20,21224:12238:6

Wheeler

2:15 49:6156:15

whenever

88:14

whereby

137:14

whether

11:1315:535:2346:158:1868:1071:1872:1473:14116:5137:18143:20144:10148:16172:3173:15,16175:17176:9177:11182:9186:17189:16,22191:14204:11212:9220:2226:4,7233:14236:1238:13239:9249:4,9250:23

white 17:3

whoever

25:2

whole

24:1325:4,2238:24163:8

222:5246:8252:23

who's 8:15

90:17139:4,5

whose

85:19175:2,4216:13,14

William

2:13

win 9:25

Wingrove

168:4185:8,18

Wingrove's

168:9

wish 76:12

wishes

137:11

witness

34:6 61:772:12,15,1973:13,19,21 84:298:12100:16102:11,23103:14,23104:16105:22106:1,4,24 110:14148:16156:16159:9,17

witnesses

83:20

won 167:6

wonder

157:23

wondered

133:20

wondering

10:17

Wood 81:21

Woodworth

254:9

wording

178:17182:7

work

22:8,1323:546:1656:19,2159:14,20,2360:7,16,24 64:881:1382:15,2183:17,25126:9,11,21 127:22129:21,25131:4134:2136:6137:5139:19144:9,12154:4155:7169:9,12178:10191:4215:6219:15220:7,11,15221:6,13225:10,12226:6231:17,18232:17239:18,22240:2,4,15252:2,10,17

worked

14:8 83:5

160:13

working

81:1884:1185:5148:18150:9160:12161:16166:6,12168:6175:23252:11253:12

works

82:18167:22220:20

workshop

188:20

world 11:6

139:18

worry

45:16

worth

243:13

wrap 152:7

wrapped

138:6

write

62:12,1794:13

writes 7:8

52:15

writing

6:2549:1479:893:19139:10235:9

written

17:446:13180:10,23

wrong


51:1562:583:2491:18,23219:23

wrote 25:5

89:3137:20158:14

Y

yesterday

5:21 6:610:2314:1830:439:1640:1660:15,2365:20,2366:7,1167:11,2469:2576:2278:1882:586:1787:2490:5 92:697:799:11104:3,6105:17133:16137:21139:21155:14,18158:23197:10

yet 115:24

116:12,14136:25138:11230:19

YMC 122:1

YMCA

121:19122:5124:23

125:11127:7,9,12

yoga

140:23

you'll

112:13,25114:15121:7,14140:20144:20145:21,24147:10,21154:3

young

142:14

yours

48:2255:982:13

yourself

31:1532:2152:2363:15126:7175:3200:25250:2

you've

25:329:1735:1653:755:2357:1580:1592:9,10110:13131:23137:14142:1156:7160:9199:19218:16,17223:13244:24

Z

zero

152:11

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