An Oral History Project by The University of Texas at Arlington

Interviewee: Mr. Rex Latham Interviewer: Melissa Gonzales Date of Interview: February 24, 2013 Location of Interview: Arlington, Texas Transcriber: Diane Saylors

Special Collections UT Arlington Libraries

Gonzales: This is Melissa Gonzales. Today is February 24, 2013, and I am

interviewing Mr. Rex Latham for the first time. This interview is

taking place at the University of Texas at Arlington Central Library

in Arlington, Texas. This interview is sponsored by the College of

Liberal Arts and is part of the Maverick Veterans’ Voices Project.

So we’ll get right to it.

Where are you from originally?

Latham: I was born in East Texas and after age eleven I grew up in

Arlington, Texas, about ten minutes from UTA.

Gonzales: Did you participate in the ROTC in high school?

Latham: No, it was not offered.

Gonzales: Okay. So why did you choose to attend Arlington State College?

Latham: Primarily two reasons: one, I lived ten minutes from the University,

and secondly, I could afford the tuition, and I basically paid my own

way through college.

Gonzales: What was your major?

Latham: I had a double major, history and government or political science.

Gonzales: What were your first impressions of the school?

Latham: Well, growing up in Arlington, I had ridden by the school several

times, and actually while I was in high school my brother was on

the faculty here. So I had visited several times and so I was

generally familiar with it. And it was just—it was no outstanding

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impression—it was just, this is the college that I’m going to, and it’s

a nice place. But Arlington at that time particularly was a commuter

college, so the big thing for many of us was: Where can I find a

parking space?

Gonzales: (laughs) So did you live in a dormitory or did you live at home?

Latham: I lived at home. I lived at home all four years although I had good

friends that lived in the few dorms that were available. And so I

spent a lot of time in the dorm, particularly Davis. What was then

Davis Dorm and is now Brazos Hall.

Gonzales: So you were in the Corps of Cadets here at Arlington from the

beginning?

Latham: I joined it as a freshman in the fall of 1961.

Gonzales: So in addition to ROTC, what other campus activities did you

engage in?

Latham: I was in Circle K, I was in student government, I was in the Corps of

Cadets at that time and the first two years were basically almost

mandatory for the incoming freshman boys, and so as I went

through I was in the ROTC NCO, or Non-Commissioned Officers

Club, and I was in the Officers Club my senior year. I’m trying to

think. But I guess the two major—and then I was in a—oh, my

goodness, what was it called? For one or two semesters I was in

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the honorary academic society, and I can’t remember what it was

called.

Gonzales: What was your course load like?

Latham: Normally, I would take fifteen hours a semester because I always

went to summer school and took two courses in the summer

school. There were two semesters in summer school, so I would

take a course one semester and then take another course the

second semester because I liked to keep my hours down to—to be

very honest—where I felt I could keep my grades high with fifteen

hours but also have time for extracurricular activities, such as the

Sam Houston Rifles, student government, and the Circle K, which

was a service club sponsored by the Kiwanis.

Gonzales: Tell me about the Sam Houston Rifles Club.

Latham: Well, that was not a club. It was a drill team.

Gonzales: Drill team.

Latham: But quite frankly, it had a very dramatic impact on me and a lasting

impact because in high school I had been rather shy, and the Sam

Houston Rifles—there’s a couple of things happened there. My

brother had been a member of the Sam Houston Rifles, and he had

been the faculty sponsor of the Sam Houston Rifles when he was

there. And so when I came in, which was a year after he left, there

were a lot of members of the Sam Houston Rifles that remembered

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him. And there was a certain amount of, I guess it would be called,

hazing that went on then. But as you came in as a recruit, you

learned the drills but you also were at the beck and call of the

upperclassmen, members that were already on it, and they were

trying to teach you discipline and mental exercises. And coming in

as the younger brother of a physical fitness nut, let’s just say the

things that he had them do they remembered as part of the training

and young Latham learned to deal with that. So I learned to

persevere very quickly.

But Sam Houston Rifles taught me discipline. They taught

me—and they brought out the leadership goals. I mean, I learned

how to be a leader by watching older members, particularly a

gentleman named Lee B. Wilson, who just became an absolutely

fantastic soldier. I also—a gentleman that you will interview again

by the name of Jerry V. Houston was an upperclassman, and I

watched how he was a first executive officer in the Sam Houston

Rifles and later the commander of the Sam Houston Rifles. And I

watched how he led. And I took examples from them, so it kept me

in physical condition.

I learned that I could do things that I didn’t know that I could

do, that I could perform beyond what I expected that I could do.

And I kept those lessons with me through life, and I also learned

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that if I was going to demand something of someone, then I had

better be sure that I could do it myself. To lead by example rather

than just telling someone to do things, and those were lessons that

the Rifles impacted.

And quite frankly, it was a great deal of comradeship on it

because, again, we had all gone through the same training. It was

like after I joined the Army, it was very similar to the elite military

units that I’d been on. You had gone through the same hardships,

the same drills, the same things, and that builds a team spirit, and

you learn that it’s not about you. It’s about the team because on a

drill team particularly, if you tried to be an individual star, you’d

mess up the rest of the team. You had to be able to synchronize

your actions and everything else and your goals with that of the

team. And you had to depend on your fellow team members. And

I’ve taken those lessons with me throughout all my careers, and I

say that I’ve had three: the military, the CIA, and then civilian

employment afterwards.

Gonzales: Did you work while you attended Arlington State College?

Latham: Yes. I worked every summer. I was in the first group hired at Six

Flags Over Texas. It opened the year I graduated, and I was able

for the first three years to fund my education through working at Six

Flags during the summers and the spring. And in fact, one of the

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most enjoyable things I ever did was become a member of the Six

Flags Confederate Drill Team, which was a lot of fun and we did

Sam Houston—they were all members of the Sam Houston

Rifles—and we did some of our same drills there and entertained

the folks. But it was a wonderful job. We drilled ten minutes out of

every half an hour, and the other twenty minutes we had our

photographs taken with all the children, basically.

Gonzales: So there are probably a lot of photos out there. (Both laugh) You

have no idea where they are.

Latham: I have no idea where they are. (Gonzales laughs)

And then my senior year, because I had been to military

ROTC camp, I’d been unable to work at Six Flags, so I drove a

student bus to Fort Worth part-time in the afternoons, and that’s

where I laughingly say I learned diplomacy.

Gonzales: I read that after you graduated, you were commissioned as a

second lieutenant in the U.S. Army and started active duty in 1965?

Latham: That is correct.

Gonzales: Did you have to attend boot camp, or did your preparation at

Arlington State College take that place?

Latham: As a ROTC graduate, you don’t go to boot camp, but you go to the

Infantry Officers Basic Course, which was held at Fort Benning,

Georgia. And I did go through that, but I had a sort of an unusual

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career start. At that time the Army would let you go from graduation

immediately to your unit, and so I left UTA and went directly to Fort

Bragg, North Carolina to join the Third Battalion of the 325th

Airborne Infantry, part of the Eighty-second Airborne. And when I

got to Fort Bragg, my unit was deployed to the Dominican Republic.

There had been a crisis, a revolution down there, and President

Johnson had sent in the Eighty-second Airborne to deal with the

situation.

So I reported as a second lieutenant and there was really no

one left in my—very few people in my unit, just a small

housekeeping group, and it was very boring. I was going to have to

stay there until my Infantry Officers Basic Class and Airborne Class

started in late August. Two captains came back from the Dominican

Republic from my unit. I met them. They asked me if I’d like to go to

the Dominican Republic, and I said, “Absolutely!” They went back,

talked to the battalion commander, and I got orders to go to the

Dominican Republic.

So I went. I was assigned a rifle platoon, and as a young

second lieutenant with no airborne training and no infantry basic

training, I commanded a rifle platoon in the Dominican Republic

from roughly late June until, I think it was sometime in August. At

that time they discovered that I was not supposed to be down there.

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They sent me back, and I had, I think, two weeks before I went to

Infantry Basic School. So I had been in the Dominican Republic I

think about forty-five days before—something like that.

Gonzales: Had you ever been overseas before?

Latham: Never.

Gonzales: What did you think of it?

Latham: Well, it was a tropical island, and I liked it. I like hot weather, it was

great, and I had very good soldiers, and I had an outstanding

platoon sergeant, who took me under his wing and really taught me

a lot. But it was what I had joined the Army for. And I thoroughly

enjoyed it and when I finished my courses, I came back and went

back to the Dominican Republic until my unit finally rotated out.

Gonzales: Okay. And what happened after it was rotated out?

Latham: I rotated out, came back to Fort Bragg. I took over a weapons

platoon, which was a heavier platoon, and really enjoyed that. I,

again, had a very good sergeant. The enlisted men in the airborne

at that time—and still are—all volunteers, so it was an elite unit.

And I did that until the battalion commander decided that he

needed what was called a motor officer. The lieutenant that was the

motor officer got sent to Viet Nam and he needed a replacement,

so I took that job, one that I did not particularly like, and I still don’t

like, but, again, I had a very good—in that case—a warrant officer,

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who really ran the unit. But I didn’t like the job, so I did the same

thing my predecessor did to get out of it, I heard they were looking

for people to go to Viet Nam. So.

Gonzales: And when was that, about what time?

Latham: That would be in the summer of 1966, so it’d been a year later,

roughly, and I went to Viet Nam in October 1966.

Gonzales: And for how long were you there?

Latham: I was there for a year. I was an assistant advisor to a Vietnamese

infantry battalion. The Third Battalion, Sixteenth regiment, Ninth

infantry division, and we were assigned in the Mekong Delta, which

was the sole province of the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam. And

we were the division’s reaction force, if you will. We were their—

another term of the strategic reserve.

Anytime the enemy struck, we were the ones that were sent

in to find, fix, and kill them. So we had no permanent base. And we

ranged all through the division’s area of operation. I used to laugh

and say, “I probably have laundry in every Chinese or Vietnamese

laundries through the division delta,” which really comprised about

four provinces.

Gonzales: Since we are moving around so much, were you able to stay in

touch with your family, and how often were you able to touch base?

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Latham: The communications with the family were all by what you would call

snail mail now. (Gonzales laughs) And the way we would do that is

we would—the answer is I kept in touch by writing letters and

getting letters. But it might be, you know, several weeks or so, but

eventually we would go to division headquarters, which was always

permanently in one location…and one of us—we had teams of

three to four Americans with three hundred Vietnamese. So there

were just very few of us, but anyway, one of us would go back for

orders, directions, and other—he would pick up the mail and bring it

out, and we’d read it and then if we wanted mail to go out, we

would give it to him or to me, depending on whoever it was, and

we’d take all the letters and drop them off at division.

Gonzales: Okay. Were you married at the time or before you left or that came

after?

Latham: I was single.

Gonzales: Okay. That’s sounds rather stressful, all the moving around and

then your job assignment on top of that. Were you able to take

leave, or was there any way to manage the stress?

Latham: We got a week or two weeks of R and R for the entire tour. That

was it, and you were given your choice of several countries to go

to. If you were married—and most of the married people did it—

they would fly to Hawaii and meet their wives there. The bachelors,

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we could go to Thailand, Taiwan, Japan. And those were the ones I

remember. I ended up going to Thailand. I’d never been there, it

sounded exotic. Somebody told me it was a beautiful place, a nice

place to visit, so I went to Thailand, which turned out to be very,

very useful later on in an assignment.

But managing the stress, I mean, it was just—it’s kind of

hard to describe, but I joined the Army—the Viet Nam, this may

sound somewhat bad, I guess, but the assignments in the

Dominican Republic and the assignments in Viet Nam were things

that I signed up for in the Army. It was adventuresome, it was

dangerous, and there were certain aspects of being assigned to the

Vietnamese Army that were different from being with an American

force because you were—let me put—I went through three

American captains and I went through one—four American

sergeants. I was one of the few advisors, at least in my area that

stayed with the same unit the entire tour. The rest were either killed

or, as we liked to say—I regret that we did—got their ticket punched

after six months and they would find a desk job somewhere. And I

felt that was not the reason I was there. These Vietnamese soldiers

were in many cases underpaid, poorly led, but they were fighting for

their freedom.

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Gonzales: When were you assigned to Thailand? Was it right after this tour

ended?

Latham: No, I actually—after my Vietnamese tour ended, I wanted to be

closer to home, so I went to Fort Polk, Louisiana, and I commanded

a training company there, and did that for a year, and then went to

Thailand—was a headquarters company there on the post and unit

where we trained the Thai Army that was going to Viet Nam to

assist in the U.N. cause. So we trained the Thais that went over to

fight alongside the Vietnamese.

And if you’ve ever heard of the Bridge on the River Kwai or

seen the movie?

Gonzales: Yes.

Latham: That’s where my post was.

Gonzales: Oh, wow!

Latham: We were up on the Thai-Burma border.

Gonzales: It seems like it was a long—I can’t even imagine what it was like

being over there at that time, but are there any memorable

experiences that you look upon favorably or anything that you look

back on that you find—I don’t want to say humorous—but anything

unusual that kind of sticks with you?

Latham: Well, there were some—it’s sort of like: How much time do you

have? (Both laugh) I mean, there were a lot of things that are very

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memorable. I celebrate, if you will—commemorate would be a

better term—my own memorial day because of a particular battle I

was in. It happened to be the biggest battle that I was in. And it was

actually Easter Sunday.

You know, for some reason, I do not know why, but the older

I get, the more emotional I get. And I used to be able to talk about

this with no emotion at all, and I don’t like to show emotion, so,

excuse me.

But I lost a good friend and a captain on Easter Sunday,

March 26, 1967, so for myself and several other folks, that’s our

memorial day. But it was the biggest battle in the Mekong Delta up

until the Tet Offensive, and I was in the middle of it.

But there were humorous things happened. I guess, to me,

they were humorous looking back. One time we went—we were

preparing to deploy on an operation, and we visited a provincial

headquarters because we were going to stage out of there. And

you have to understand that as advisors and particularly us, we had

no home. Our area where we stayed when we weren’t on operation

was a rice paddy near division headquarters, and we slept on cots

when we were there. The rest of the time we slept in Vietnamese

hammocks. It was nice to be short and light because I could put my

hammock actually on banana trees or banana stalks and sleep in

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them. If you were heavy, you couldn’t do that. And in the Delta, you

didn’t sleep on the ground because of the wet and all of that.

But anyway, we pulled into the provincial headquarters, and

whenever we went to a facility like that, we took turns. And one of

the advisors going to take a shower. That was a big thing. So it was

my turn. So I went in—we got there after dark—I went in to take a

shower because they had one. And in the middle of the shower, the

Viet Cong decided to mortar the place. And so dressed with a towel

and a carbine, (laughs) I got out of the shower and went to the wall

because we—and so I’m standing there in flip flops, a towel, and a

carbine, and I’m thinking, You know what? This is ridiculous! But

fortunately, they didn’t attack, they just shelled us and let us go.

There was another thing that was, to me, comical. Again, our

mission, when we would pull in to a division or one of these places,

we would go in. When we were at division headquarters, one of us

would go in and sleep in one of the barracks that belonged to the

folks that were permanently assigned there. But you—as we

termed hot bunked—you know, if someone is gone, you got their

bunk. You could sleep in their bunk. If they were all filled, then you

went back to your unit. So we pulled in to division headquarters

and, again, it was my turn. I went in and saw the supply sergeant,

whoever, and he said, oh, yes, so-and-so—captain so-and-so or

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lieutenant so-and-so is gone, and it was a top bunk. And so I went

in, lay down, and, you know, just completely zonked out.

The next morning I got up and went in to their mess hall to

eat breakfast before rejoining my battalion, and everybody was

talking about a mortar attack that happened that night. And I

basically said, “Well, what are you guys talking about?” And they

said, “What do you mean?” I said, “I didn’t hear a mortar attack,”

and they said, “You were here last night?” I said, “Yeah.” They said,

“My god, you slept through the attack.” And I laughed and said,

“Well, that’s what happens when you get used to these kinds of

things.” And I went on my way.

Gonzales: Were you awarded any medals or citations, and if so how did you

get these?

Latham: I mentioned the Easter Sunday Battle, and I was awarded the Silver

Star. The captain who was killed was awarded the Distinguished

Service Cross. But I got it for as they term gallantry in action, but it

was one of those things where you make a split-second decision

that you’re not so sure it’s the right one at the time, and I remember

thinking, I’m either going to get court-marshaled or maybe get a

medal, but I got to do this. And it just so happened that they gave

me a medal.

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And actually, I was very fortunate because this battle has

been written up in three books, and two of them deal with my role.

The third one does not because it was written by the Vietnamese

general commanding the division and he didn’t care about that, and

a Look magazine article and then several other articles.

There were six—actually five comrades and I that went back

in 2007, and we visited the battlefield on the fortieth anniversary to

the day. Interesting thing to me was that there were three infantry

advisors and three—two helicopter pilots, and a door gunner. And

the infantry advisors, we all knew each other, but we hadn’t seen

each other in forty years. The helicopter pilots we really didn’t

know. These were units that supported us. I mean, they flew us all

over in the battle or all over the Delta, but basically all we saw of

them were the back of their helmets. But we met in San Francisco,

and one of them had put together this visit, and went out there. We

had—because of that day, we have become fast friends and

maintain contact not only with them but with others that we’ve since

established contact who all shared that experience.

But it was a day that I saw incredible bravery and cowardice,

and that’s how I got my medal because the—I don’t know if you

have time for this—but basically a Viet Cong main force battalion

that had been brought up and reinforced attacked one of our sister

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units, and then as they normally do, about three o’clock, four

o’clock in the morning, they broke off the attack to try and

disappear, and we were the force that were sent in to—we were

going to be heli-lifted in to find, fix them, and either kill them or hold

them until other additional units would come.

But everything that could go wrong that day did. In my case,

well, what happened was the captain—we couldn’t all go in the

same—I’m trying to use civilian terms—we couldn’t go all in the

same group of helicopters. There were limited numbers. So the first

group were lifted in and the captain and the Vietnamese battalion

commander were there, and this was a guy—the Vietnamese

captain—Vietnamese battalion commander was a guy that I did not

like. He’d already gotten me wounded once by stopping an attack in

the middle and when he did, Pow! I got hit by a mortar round. But

anyway, when they flew—when you prepare a landing zone, you

procure the area around it with artillery fire.

But unfortunately, the helicopter commander decided that he

was going to try to get the unit closer, so he took them in to a

different landing zone. And when he landed, it happened to be right

in front of the VC in their dug-in positions, and they were armed

with the Chinese 12.7s, which were equivalent to a fifty caliber

machinegun, and they just shot the heck out of the helicopters and

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the troops and shot one helicopter right on the ground. A medevac

went in to try to get that crew. They shot it down.

The helicopter commander decided he was going to be

brave and before they could get more support up, he went in and

he got shot down. So we had three helicopter crews on the ground,

and we had the first half of my battalion, and then they decided that

we would be sent in and they landed us in with a wood line

between us, and when we got up the front, my radio didn’t work. So

I couldn’t communicate with anybody, and everything had to go

through the Vietnamese XO, and I kept saying, “We need to

conduct a flanking operation,” which was the smart military thing to

do, and he said, “I can’t do it. The Vietnamese—the battalion

commander won’t let me.” And I said, “Well, ask him where the

senior advisor is,” and the answer came back, “He doesn’t know.”

So I said, “Okay. You guys stay here, and I will go out there

and persuade the battalion commander to let us flank or find the

senior advisor, find a radio, or get something going.” So I did, I

guess what you could say is, a John Wayne activity, and it was the

rainy season still, and so the mud was up to my knees.

Anyway, the good Lord was looking after me because I

made it from the wood line all the way out to where all the troops

were, and I found out that the captain was dead, the sergeant that

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was with him was in shock, all the crews were dispersed and

wounded. So I got everybody together and got the battalion

commander and he refused to do what I wanted to do. And they

organized a rescue spur-of-the-moment, one that sent three

helicopters in, and that’s when I said, when I saw bravery. I mean, it

was incredible because there was one pilot that flew a smoke ship

right in front of the VC to provide smoke. This is all written up in

these books, but it’s just incredible.

But anyway, we got the wounded Americans on the

helicopters, and I looked on the last helicopter and my battalion

commander was on that helicopter flying out. I can’t tell you—I can’t

say in polite company what I was thinking. Turned out to be the

best thing because when he left, nobody took over, so I did. And as

a young American lieutenant, and I had been with the unit long

enough where people listened. So long story short, with all the

support we finally at the end of the day assaulted the wood line. We

had—resources came in and we finally gained the wood line, but it

was after dark. Then as we were—but they credited me with

rescuing the crews and taking over, and at the end of the day, we

were looking for wounded and the bodies of the captain and others.

At this point, one of my Vietnamese soldiers came up and

basically said, Lieutenant, there’s somebody out there and we think

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it’s an American and we’re not going close to him. (laughs) So I

went out and as I got close, I heard, in essence, a round being

chambered, and I said, “Wait a minute. I’m an American!” and in

essence thinking, I hope you’re an American. And it was one of the

downed pilots that had been there all day. Really severely injured.

So we got him, and I was totally out of medical supplies and

morphine, and we had a gunship. In those days it was called C-130

spooky mounted a Gatling gun in it, a wonderful weapon.

But God works in mysterious ways. There was a doctor that

had taken a joyride on this thing. So I told him—we were

communicating and I told him about the problem, and he says,

“Okay. You can hold your position.” I said, “Absolutely! We’re

good.” So they flew back to their base, got morphine, flew back,

and dropped it by flairs. And so we doctored my people up, we

doctored the American pilot up, and then the corps commander

that’s flying on a helicopter and overheard us, he dropped his

helicopter. He put the American pilot on and flew back and got him

in.

And that’s how I spent Easter Sunday. But I have met the

pilot since and we have become good friends. But we joke because

he’s about 6 foot something, and he weighs a lot more now than he

did then, and I tease him because I say, “Ron [Cone], it’s a good

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thing you were slim because we would never have gotten you on

that helicopter with what you weigh now.”

Gonzales: Oh, my goodness. When did your service end?

Latham: 1969 in August after my tour in Thailand.

Gonzales: Okay. Did you come straight back to Arlington, or did you go

somewhere else?

Latham: No. Arlington at that time didn’t have the advanced degrees that it

has now. So I had decided I wanted to get out of the military for a

variety of reasons. I enjoyed what I did, but there were several

reasons. One, which I kind of wanted a somewhat stable life where

I could meet a woman and get married. (laughs) But anyway. I

laugh when I say that. But I enrolled in the University of Texas

thinking I might get a PhD. And I did—or I enrolled in the University

of Texas in government. I decided to specialize in Southeast Asia

since I’d already had two years there, I liked it, I really enjoyed the

people and all of that. And I thought I would probably teach.

The atmosphere even at what some would consider a

conservative University of Texas was not very welcoming to Viet

Nam veterans, and I quickly deduced that I wasn’t going to get very

far in the academic world as a Viet Nam veteran. But I had some

wonderful instructors there, particularly the gentleman who

supervised my graduate thesis, and one of them said, “I know

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someone that you might be interested in talking to with your

background.” And I said, “Okay, fine. I need a job. What is it?” He

said, “He’ll explain it to you.”

So I met a gentleman, very nice gentleman, in a motel room

in Austin, Texas, and he said in essence, “How would you like to

work for the CIA?” And I said, “Wow! I think I would.” So he said,

“Good! Here’s the requirements,” and he gave me the

requirements. He said, “Now, you have to go through a lot of

training, and you may or may not washout or you might washout or

you may make it.” I said, “Well, let’s give it a shot and see what.” So

I went to Washington and twenty-seven years later I retired.

Gonzales: Do you think the transition from military to civilian life was easier

because you went into the CIA, or would it have more difficult if you

had becoming academic?

Latham: I think it would have become more difficult as an academic, and it

was easier into the CIA or even into a business probably than as an

academic. For me, the military and the CIA were really good, and I

used my military experience and background in the CIA in some of

the assignments. And the leadership lessons that I learned at UTA

and the military I used every day.

Gonzales: Are you at liberty to discuss your job assignments with the CIA?

Latham: In general.

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Gonzales: Okay.

Latham: I was an operations—if you want that information.

Gonzales: Yes. Yes.

Latham: I was an operations officer. Basically, I recruited and ran spies, and

then later on I ran programs that recruited and ran spies, and I was

extremely fortunate. I mean, there’s a joke in the CIA, which is true,

is that when you’re in the field you can’t believe they pay you.

When you’re assigned to headquarters in Washington, there is no

amount of money they can pay you that makes it worthwhile

because of the Washington bureaucracy and stuff. But I joke that

I’ve been in one war and two revolutions, and one of those

revolutions was when I was in the CIA and that was a wonderful

experience. It was truly interesting, and it was a revolution that was

a good revolution. I mean, it was a revolt against a dictator, and

that was a great time, great experience.

I got to work on some of the most pressing intelligence

problems of my era: Russia, China, the Middle East, all kinds of

stuff, and I was privileged to work with a group of very dedicated

people. And it was—especially some of the assignments were

absolutely mentally stimulating. I worked—I mean, I came out as a

history/government major and background, but—though working

with these people, and some of them were my sources and the best

23

in their field. But I mean, I learned economics, science, the coral

industry, computers, information technology, agriculture. It was

just—and I got to go places that an East Texas farm boy—I would

have never dreamed that I’d been able to go. I spent a total of nine

years in Asia, and I’ve been to almost every Asian country that you

can think of. I’ve been to the Middle East. I’ve been to Africa. I’ve

been to Central—Eastern Europe, what we now call Central

Europe.

And as most of my CIA classmates—you go through training

there like you do other places, and so you have classes. One of my

classmates and I met after about ten years, and we were both back

at headquarters. Said, “How you doing?” Said, “I’m doing well. How

about you?” And we were chatting, and he said, “You know, Rex,

there’s the banquet circuit,” meaning Europe, Rome, Italy, and he

said, “and there’s the armpit circuit,” yeah, the Third World

countries and stuff. And he said, “You know which circuit we’re on?”

and I had to—and I said, “Yeah, but tell you what, we have a lot

more fun.” And we did. I used to joke that you hear of spies having

to wear tuxedoes and everything. Most of the time I was in a brush

jacket or the local native dress, and it was a lot more comfortable

and it was a lot more fun. I joked if it was a big dirty Asian city with

intermittent power, that was where I was going to be assigned, or

24

as my son said on one assignment when I came home and proudly

announced where we were going, his response was, “Not another

Third World country.” However, I will tell you that as we drew near

the end of that tour, both my children came up and said, “Can you

extend?” (laughs)

Gonzales: Well, it was nice you were able to take your family with you.

Latham: I did. Yes, my family went with me most—almost all the time;

however, I had assignments where I would leave my family in one

country and fly to other countries on a regular basis. So my wife

was a wonderful woman, but she had to deal with me being gone a

lot, and she didn’t know—she knew generally where I would be, but

she didn’t know what I was doing or in many cases, even if I was

operating under my own name or identity.

On one assignment that was two weeks out of every month,

so she put up with a lot. And most of my assignments also, I give

high credit to my wife because we would move into a country or

city, and I’d take off, and so she unpacked and packed and, you

know, all of that sort of stuff, a remarkable woman.

Gonzales: So you retired from the CIA in 1998?

Latham: Yes.

Gonzales: And did you retire completely, or you went into the civilian sector

afterward, right?

25

Latham: I went into the civilian sector.

Gonzales: What did you end up—what did you do then after you left?

Latham: Well, I worked about four years for Electronic Data Systems,

headquartered in the Dallas area. And I was a paid employee but

basically I consulted them on how to tailor their products and other

stuff for the intelligence community. And part of that was explaining

what the intelligence community needed and also how to present it,

and in every case they—they were engineers, so the first thing they

wanted to tell you was what a wonderful engineering product they

had, and et cetera, et cetera, and I basically had to say, Look, as a

consumer I’m not interested in that. What I want to know is: Here’s

my mission, here’s my objective, here’s what I need to do. How

does your product help me reach that goal or achieve that mission?

I said, “Once you explain that to me, then you can tell me all the

technical details.” So I was a very—a well paid translator. (Both

laugh)

And then I went to a small company that was thirty people,

which was a lot more fun, and I got to travel all over the world

consulting with businesses and governments on the continuity of

operations and due diligence. You know, who are you—if you’re

dealing with a company in another country or people, what do you

26

really know about them? Are they legitimate? Are they good people

or bad people? And so that’s what my company did.

Gonzales: That’s impressive.

It’s seems like your time with the Sam Houston Rifles

influenced—the drill team influenced your life and your career. Do

you engage in any alumni reunions with them or chapters or

anything like that?

Latham: The answer is yes. We have had an alumni association. Actually, it

predates the Cadet Corps Alumni, but in recent years because of

the change in the military and, if you will, the decline of drill teams,

it’s not so—it’s not active anymore in that sense. We really—those

members—those of us who were in the Sam Houston Rifles have, if

you will, moved our loyalty to the Cadet Corps in our efforts, so,

yes, we still take pride in being part of the Sam Houston Rifles.

They’re apparently reestablishing it here in the Cadet Corps this

year and we’re delighted with that, and we see—we visit again

during the Hall of Honor and all of that. But it’s more inclusive with

the Cadet Corps.

Gonzales: You seem to have a lot of—there were some conflicting emotions in

your time during the military from what I gathered. But with your

military experience and your work with the CIA, has that influenced

your current views on today’s military and its campaigns or—I’m

27

just trying to figure out if that has—if the way it’s changed—if your

views have changed with the way the military has changed over the

years.

Latham: No, I mean, I’m very proud and pleased with the military and what

it’s performed. And I wish to share I do not regret my service. I’m

delighted. I determined that for a variety of reasons that I wanted to

pursue another career.

I went into the military expecting to make it a career. For a

variety of personal reasons I decided to do something else that I

thought was better suited, and I was very fortunate. In fact, going

into the CIA, I think that fit my talents, strengths, and abilities better.

I think I could have—actually based on my performance in the

military, I think I could’ve done as well in the military, but I think I

was better suited for the CIA. And I used the experience that I got

in the military and the lessons that I learned in the military in the

CIA, very much so.

So the military had a positive influence and I found it

extremely useful. For example, in one instance I was dealing with a

high level official of another country when I was in the CIA, and I

noticed that he had on a pair of American jump wings. We had not

been able to do very much with this country, let’s put it that way.

And my job was to remedy that situation.

28

So I looked and I said, “I see you have American jump

wings. Did you go to jump school at Fort Benning?” And he proudly

said, “Yes!” and I said, “Wow, I did too.” He said, “Oh, when were

you there?” And so we went back and forth, and suddenly at the

end of that conversation, the atmosphere became much warmer,

much friendly, and then he said, “Well, how long did you spend in

the military?” And I told him and he said, “Were you in Viet Nam?”

and I listened. “What were you, infantry?” I said, “I was airborne

infantry.” He said, “Oh, yeah. So was I. So am I.” And again, I found

that extremely useful in a variety of countries and situations.

Gonzales: In 2000, you were recognized as a UTA Distinguished Alumnus.

Returning to campus for events, such as this weekend’s Military

Hall of Honors, what campus changes have you noticed that you

wish had been around when you were a student here?

Latham: Well, the food. (Both laugh) You’ve got a lot more in variety of food.

But you’ve got buildings and resources that, you know, we never

dreamed of. So those are wonderful things, and I’m delighted that

you have them.

At the same time, I enjoyed UTA because it was smaller,

and so therefore, it was easier to know more people. So you weigh

one with the other, but I mean, I’m very proud of UTA.

29

My son went to UTA and is a UTA graduate. And I’m proud

of the international flavor in UTA, and actually I tease my son—

because he grew up overseas—that one of the things he has said

he would never attend UTA because his uncle, his cousins, his dad

had gone there. He said, “I don’t want any part of that.” But when

we visited UTA, we visited one of the buildings, and I can’t

remember which one, but he saw all the flags of the countries that

had students here. And he thought, “Oh, wait a minute. This is truly

an international student body. I fit in here.” And so he did. He’s

never left the area.

Gonzales: Well, before we wrap up, is there anything you’d like to contribute to

the interview that I didn’t address?

Latham: Well, I enjoyed my time at UTA. And, again, the ROTC and the

academics here were—they taught me discipline, how to budget my

time, how to care for it, and the staff—I cannot talk about the

current faculty because I don’t know it, but UTA when I was here—

and particularly in the history and government department and the

ROTC department, there was a Colonel McDowell and a Major

Menifee, who were absolutely superb leaders. In fact, Colonel

McDowell retired and came back on the faculty and taught Russian

and established the Russian department.

30

In the history department, there were teachers like E.C.

Barksdale and C.D. Richards, who made every class—although

very demanding—a lot of fun. They both could’ve been comedians

if they hadn’t been college professors.

Emory Estes in the English department, and he was here for

years and years, was not only a wonderful teacher but a terrific

individual. And all of those inspired me and inspired me to learn. I

mean, I grew to have a great appreciation just for learning, and I

appreciate what UTA meant in that regard.

Gonzales: Well, it has been a pleasure talking with you today. And I want to

thank you, Mr. Latham, for taking the time to talk with us. You are

very helpful and informative, and I thank you for your service and

your contribution to this project.

Latham: Well, thank you. I wish you well with your project, and I appreciate

what the project is doing for veterans. You’ll have a lot more, I

think, interesting interviewees than me, but I think you’ll get some

wonderful stories and experiences. And thank you. Nice meeting

you.

Gonzales: Nice meeting you too. (end of interview)

31

Index

A

Arlington State College .................... 1, 2, 5, 6 Davis Dorm .............................................. 2 English department ............................... 31 government department ........................ 30 history department ................................. 30 Russian department .............................. 30

Arlington, Texas ......................... 1, 2, 5, 6, 21 Army of the Republic of Viet Nam ... 9, 11, 17 Austin, Texas ............................................. 22

B

Barksdale, E.C. .......................................... 31 Bridge on the River Kwai ........................... 12

C

campus activities ......................................... 2 Circle K ................................................ 2, 3 honorary academic society ..................... 3

childhood ............................................... 1, 24 CIA career ............................ 5, 22-25, 27, 28

assignments ........................11, 22, 23, 25 classes .................................................. 24 fun.......................................................... 24 intelligence problems............................. 23 operations officer ................................... 22 retirement .............................................. 25

civilian career ................................... 5, 25, 26 Electronic Data Systems ....................... 26 small company ................................ 26-28

combat ................................................. 14, 15 Cone, Ron .................................................. 20

D

Dallas, Texas ............................................. 26 Dominican Republic ........................... 7, 8, 11

E

Easter Sunday Battle ..................... 13, 15-20 bravery ............................................ 16, 19 cowardice .............................................. 16 fortieth anniversary ................................ 16 personal memorial day .......................... 13 rescue .............................................. 18-20

education Arlington State College...................... 3, 29 funded ................................................. 5, 6 leadership .............................................. 22 University of Texas at Austin ............. 1, 21

Estes, Emory ............................................. 31

F

Fort Benning, Georgia .......................... 6, 29 Fort Bragg, North Carolina ...................... 7, 8 Fort Polk, Louisiana .................................. 12 Fort Worth, Texas ....................................... 6

G

Gonzales, Melissa....................................... 1

H

helicopters ............................................ 16-21 Houston, Jerry V. ........................................ 4 humorous events ................................. 12-14

J

Japan ........................................................ 11 Johnson, Lyndon......................................... 7

L

Latham family ........................................ 9, 25 brother .......................................... 1, 3, 30 children ........................................... 25, 30 nieces and nephews ............................. 30 wife ....................................................... 25

Latham, Rex .......................................... 1, 31 honors ................................. 15, 18, 19, 29

M

Maverick Veterans' Voices Project ....... 1, 31 McDowell, Colonel _____ ......................... 30 Menifee, Major _____ ............................... 30 military career .................. 5, 8, 21, 22, 27-29

assistant advisor ..................................... 9 classes ................................................. 6-8 commanded training company ............. 12 discharge .............................................. 21 duties ...................................................... 9 good soldiers .......................................... 8 lieutenant ...................................... 6, 7, 19 outstanding leaders ................................ 8 R and R ................................................ 10 Thailand tour ......................................... 21 Vietnamese tour ............................. 11, 12

R

Republic of Viet Nam ...... 8, 9, 11, 12, 21, 29 Mekong Delta ....................... 9, 13, 14, 16

Richards, C.D. ........................................... 31 ROTC ............................................ 1, 2, 6, 30

Corps of Cadets ................................ 2, 27

32

discipline .................................................. 4 drills ......................................................... 4 mental exercises ..................................... 4 Non-Commissioned Officers Club ........... 2 Officers Club ............................................ 2

S

Sam Houston Rifles ....................... 3, 4, 6, 27 alumni association ................................. 27 comradeship ............................................ 5 discipline ............................................ 4, 30 leadership ............................................ 4, 5 physical condition .................................... 4

San Francisco, California .......................... 16 Silver Star

credited with rescue .............................. 19 gallantry in action ...................... 15, 18, 19

Six Flags Over Texas .................................. 5 Confederate Drill Team ........................... 6

Southeast Asia........................................... 21

T

Taiwan ....................................................... 11 Tet Offensive ............................................. 13 Texas ..................................................... 1, 24 Thailand ............................................... 11, 12

Army ..................................................... 12 Third World countries ................................ 24

U

United Nations .......................................... 12 United States Army ............................ 5-7, 11

casualties .................................. 11, 15, 19 division headquarters ..... 9, 10, 13, 14, 16 Third Battalion .................................... 7, 9

University of Texas at Arlington . 1, 7, 21, 22, 29-31 Brazos Hall ............................................. 2 Central Library ........................................ 1 College of Liberal Arts ............................ 1 Hall of Honors ....................................... 29

UTA Distinguished Alumnus ..................... 29

V

veterans .............................................. 21, 31 Viet Cong ................................ 14, 16, 17, 19

W

Washington, DC .................................. 22, 23 Wilson, Lee B. ............................................. 4

33