draft minutes of 9/11 commission meeting on febraury 24, 2004

8/14/2019 Draft Minutes of 9/11 Commission Meeting on Febraury 24, 2004

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N A T I O N A LC O M M I S S I O NO NT E R R O R I S T AT TA C K SO N T H EU N I T E DSTATES

Minutes of the February 24 , 2004 M eeting

T he Chair calledthe Commissionto order at 9:08 a.m.A ll Commissioners wereinattendance.

N Y T Article on Al Shehhi. The Executive Director discussed that morning'sNew YorkTimesstory onM a rw a nal S hehhi. H e noted that the story is generally accurate and that itis trulyan ongoing investigation. C omm issioner Kerrey askedwhy theExecutiveDirector acknowledged knowledge of the story, and he replied that it was important forthe credibility of the C omm ission to state it was investigating the topic. C omm issionerKerrey suggested that the Commission not comment on such matters. CommissionerRoemerstated that it was best for such acknowledgem ents to comefrom the Chair.Commissioner Gorelicksaid that th e ExecutiveDirectorhad acted correctlyto preserveth e credibil i tyof the Commission.

CommissionerBen-Veniste inquiredas to wholeaked the story, an d asked if the leak ha danythingto dowith Team1 A's recent visitto Germany.T he E xecutive Director statedthat he did not kno w the source of the leak, but that he believed it did not comefrom theC ommission. S enior C ounsel Susan Ginsburg provideda snapshotof U.S.-Germancooperationon counterterrorismissues priorto 9-11. Commissioner Gorelick notedatheme emergingfrom th e Germanan d K uala Lum pur stories: deferenceto the field and alack ofcoordinationfrom headquarters.

Minutes. C omm issioner K errey expressedhis displeasure w iththe appendix detailingthehistory of PDB negotiations and inquired as to who haddrafted i t. The D eputy E xecutiveDirector statedthat he haddrafted the appendix at the request of the C hair and ViceC hair. C omm issioner K errey stated that the White H ouse had broken theagreement"wide latitude means wide latitude."H e added thathe remainedin favor of a subpoena.

C omm issioner Ben-Veniste asked about recreationof theAugust6, 2001, PDB and thePD B headlines. Commissioner Gorelick stated thatit waspossible to do so. The

Executive Directorstated that the White Housewouldoppose such a recreation, bu tagreed with Commissioner Gorelick. Commissioner Ben-Veniste moved thattheCommission recreatethe Augus t6 PDB and theheadlines.T he Commission|Hd no tmake a decision on whetherto "recreaf th e P D B .bu t given th e informationth eCommisisonhad already received. jC ommissioner G orelick agreedto reconstructth ethreat headlinesfrom th e spring an d summerof 2001Y

C omm issioners Ben-Veniste, Go relick, Kerrey,an d Roemer stated that they wouldsubmitamendmentsto theM inutes subsequentto themeeting.

Team O ne Presentation. Team Leader Doug M acEachin delivereda T S /S C Ipresentation on the status of histeam'swork and investigativefindings thus far. Team

Deleted: agreed by consensus

Deleted:

Deleted: undertakethe task.

C O M M IS S IO N S E N S I T IV E


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COMMISSIONSENSITIVE

2. The C hair reported that the Wh ite House had granted its request to allow theChair and Vice C hair to review the larger body of PDB items. The Chair and V iceChair will implement this agreement.

3. Th e President agreedto meet withthe Chair and Vice Chair for one hour. Th eCommissioncan choose to have a note takeror a stenographer.

The E xecutive Director reported that the Vice President is willing to meet with the Chairand Vice Chair, accompaniedby one staffer. Th e OVP prefers thatthe meetingno t givethe appearanceof public testimony. Theyare agreeable to a 90-minutemeeting...and the [Deleted;butVice President will give more time ifnecessary.

The Exe cutive Director reported that former President Clinton had agreed to a three-hourmeeting with the Commission at the K Streetoffice. Th e staff is considering dates towardthe end of March, in close proximity to scheduled Commission meetings. They did notdiscuss notetaking restrictions. N either Clinton nor Gore had rejected a publicappearance.

The staff distributeda letter from Judge Gonzales decliningthe Commission's requestfo rthe National Security Advisor's public testimony. Commissioner Ben-Veniste suggestedthat the Commission consider issuinga subpoena for Dr. Rice's public testimony.Commissioners Ben-Venisteand Gorelick added thatthe Comm ission needsto schedulea second interview because the first interview predated thefull Commission'saccess toPDB m aterial. He n oted that she had agreed to a second interview d uring thefirst sessionon February 7.

Commissioner Roemer stated that he was disappointed with Dr.Rice's response.Hefound her to be forthcomingand helpful in the interview.He stated thattheComm ission's options w ere to subpoena Dr. Rice or compel her testimony with publicpressure. H e added that the prospect of having D ick Clarke speak for the Bushadministrationmay promp t the W hite House to reconsider. C omm issioner Fieldingagreed thatthe National Security Advisor wou ld makea terrific witnessan d that he rabsence from the hearing would leavea big hole in the hearing line-up; however,the

Commission cannotforce an EO Pemployeeto testify.

The Vice C hair stated that he had made the case to the Wh ite House repeated ly on theissue of Dr. Rice's public appearance. H e noted that receiving her public testimony w asimportant, but it was not critical to achieving the Com mission's man date. C omm issionerGorelick conceded thatthe Commissionmay not elicit an additionalfact for the report,bu t her appearance was nonetheless very important. The General Counsel stated that theWhite House wouldno t comply witha subpoena.He added thatthe Commission'soutside counse l believes that the Com mission's position is not as strong now that it hasreceived private testimony.

COMMISSION SENSITIVE


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Commissioner Gorton stated that if the Commission issues a subpoena to the WhiteHouse for Dr. Rice's public testimony, the Speaker will bury the extension.Commissioner Roemer stated that the first course of action was to issue a statementexpressing the Commission's disappointment.

Commissioner Roemer recommended that the Commission issue a statement that:

1) Makes a strong bipartisan statement on the extension.2) Urges the President and Vice President to meet with the entire Commission.3) Expresses disappointment regarding Dr. Rice's decision.

The Chair and Vice Chair stated the Commission should focus first on the extension.Commissioners Gorton and Roemer observed that a_60-dayextension was likely to passwithin the next 24-48 hours. A consensus of the Commission supported issuing astatement along the lines of Commissioner Roemer's recommendation.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste inquired as to the status of dissemination of,PDB information i Deleted: th eto staff; investigation of Moussaoui and al Qaeda links; and follow-up with key foeieted: r epo r t jconspirators.

On the issue of staff access to the PDB report, the Chair expected that the Commission'srequest would be viewed favorably. The Executive Director added that the Commissionhas already provided the White House with a list of staff names (Marcus, Kojm,MacEachin, Scheid, and Hurley) and detailed justif ications for providing them access.The Executive Director described staff follow-up on the PDB information on Moussaoui,and provided a brief report on the process of obtaining information from certainindividuals in USG custody.

Th e Vice Chair agreed to hold a two-hour meeting with the families.

The Chair adjourned the meeting at approximately 4:15 p.m.



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N A T IO N A L C O M M IS SIQ N _ O NT E R R O R I S TAT T A C K SO N T H EU N I T E DSr

Minutes of th e February 24, 2004 Meeting

The Chair called the Commissionto order at 9:08 a.m. All Commissioners wereinattendance.

NY T Article on Al Shehhi. The Executive Director discussed that morning'sNew YorkTimes story on Marwan al Shehhi. He noted that the story is generally accurate and that itis truly an ongoing investigation. Commissioner Kerrey asked why the ExecutiveDirector acknowledged knowledgeof the story, and he replied that it was important forthe credibility of the Commission to state it was investigating the topic. Comm issionerKerrey suggested that the Commission not comment on such matters. CommissionerRoemer stated thatit was best for such acknowledgementsto come from the Chair.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste inquired as to who leaked the story, and asked if the leak had

anything to do with Team 1A's recent visit to Germany. The Executive Director statedthat he did not know the source of the leak, but that he believed it did not come from theComm ission. Senior Counsel Susan Ginsburg provided a snapshot of U.S.-Germancooperation oncounterterrorism issues prior to 9-11. Commissioner Gorelick noted atheme em erging from the German and Kuala Lum pur stories: deferenceto the field and alack of coordinationfrom headquarters.

Minutes. Comm issioner K errey expressed his displeasure w ith the appendixhistory of PDB negotiations and inquired as to who had drafted it. The Deputy ExecutiveDirector stated that he haddrafted the appendix at the request of the Chair and ViceChair. Commissioner Kerrey stated that the White House had broken the agreement

"wide latitude means wide latitude." He added that he remained infavorpf a subpoena.:? 1\L UWf (A/iflCommissioner Ben-Veniste asked about recreation of the Augugfo, 2001, PDB and the IrPDB headlines. Commissioner Gorelick stated that it waspossible to do so. TheExecutive Director stated that the White House wouldoppose such a recreation, butagreed with Com missioner Gorelick. CommissionerBen-V eniste moved that thejj^Comm ission recreate the August 6 PDB and the headlines.,The Commission

sr Commissioner Gorelick agreed toundu tdkiijluuusk.

Commissioners Ben-Veniste, Gorelick, Kerrey,and Roemer stated that theywosubmit amendmentsto the Minutes subsequentto the meeting.

Team One Presentation. Team Leader Doug MacE achin delivered a TS/SCIpresentationon the status of his team's workand investigative findings thus far.Temembers Yoel Tobin, Tom Dowling, Nicole Grandrimo, and Sarah Linden participatecunthe presentation.



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Team Four Presentation. Team Leader John Roth delivered a SECRET-levelpresentation on the status of his team's work and investigative findings thus far. Teammembers Doug Greenburg and Serena Wille participated in the presentation.

Security Briefing. Graham Giusti, the Commission's Chief of Security, provided a briefpresentation regarding the security challenges the Commission will face as it nears theend of its work. He distributed a copy of the February 10 Newsweek article by MichaelIsikoff, and explained that, in his judgment and the judgment of others in the intelligencecommunity, the information divulged provided a "frame of reference" (subjects,numbers, and time) and was therefore classified.

The Chair restated his long-held position that leaks could destroy the credibility of theCommission. Commissioner Ben-Veniste concurred.

Commissioner Gorelick asked what impact, if any, Steve Coil's new book would have onthe Commission's declassification efforts. In a similar vein, Commissioner Ben-Venistenoted a recent AP story that was likely based upon information leaked from KSMdebriefings. The Vice Chair noted the fact that something has been published doesn'tgive the Commission an excuse to discuss it publicly. Giusti replied that the newdisclosures might have practical advantages as the Commission seeks clearance of thefinal report, but he agreed with the Vice Chair's assessment.

In regard to the final report, tne ExecBffveDirectorstated that the burden will be on theexecutive branch to pjWe why the>usclosures could damage national security.Commissioner Lehman observedtnat executive branch has the sole power to classify anddeclassify information. Commissioner Gorelick noted that the Commission intended tosubmit a list of categories for declassification that will receive high-level attention inadvance of the pre-publication review process. The Chair concluded that discussion ofthese matters would be ongoing.

Access Issues. The Chair reported on two recent conversations with Judge Gonzales.

1 . The White House spoke at length with Speaker Hastert regarding the extension.They conveyed that the Speaker's opposition is sincere, but he's taken theposition that he will not block an extension. Commissioner Roemer expressed hisconcern that the Speaker might be reversing his position, but the Chair assuredCommissioner Roemer, based on his conversations with the White House, that theWhite House was certain about his position. The White House thinks that theextension will pass.

The Chair spoke to Senator McCain. McCain both thanked and commended theCommission on its work thus far. The Senator stated that he would try to attach atwo-month extension to the transportation extension that week.



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2. The Chair reported that the White House had granted its request to allow theChair and Vice Chair to review the larger body of PDB items. The Chair and ViceChair will implement this agreement.

3. The President agreed to meet with the Chair and Vice Chair for one hour. TheCommission can choose to have a note taker or a stenographer.

The Executive Director reported that the Vice President is willing to meet with th/Chairand Vice Chair, accompanied by one staffer. The OVP prefers that the meeting n*t givethe appearance of public testimony. They are agreeable to a 90-minute meeting, tyxt theVice President will give more time if necessary.

The Executive Director reported that former President Clinton had agreed to a three-hourmeeting with the Commission at the K Street office. The staff is considering dates towardthe end of March, in close proximity to scheduled Commission meetings. They did notdiscuss notetaking restrictions. Neither Clinton nor Gore had rejected a publicappearance.

The staff distributed a letter from Judge Gonzales declining the Commission's request forthe National Security Advisor's public testimony. Commissioner Ben-Veniste suggestedthat the Commission consider issuing a subpoena for Dr. Rice's public testimony.Commissioners Ben-Veniste and Gorelick added that the Commission needs to schedulea second interview because the first interview predated the full Commission's access toPD B material. He noted that she had agreed to a second interview during the first sessionon February 7.

Commissioner Roemer stated that he was disappointed with Dr. Rice's response. Hefound her to be forthcoming and helpful in the interview. He stated that the

Commission's options were to subpoena Dr. Rice or compel her testimony with publicpressure. He added that the prospect of having Dick Clarke speak for the Bushadministration may prompt the White House to reconsider. Commissioner Fieldingagreed that the National Security Advisor would make a terrific witness and that herabsence from the hearing would leave a big hole in the hearing line-up; however, theCommission cannot force an EOF employee to testify.

The Vice Chair stated that he had made the case to the White House repeatedly on theissue of Dr. Rice's public appearance. He noted that receiving her public testimony wasimportant, but it was not critical to achieving the Commission's mandate. CommissionerGorelick conceded that the Commission may not elicit an additional fact for the report,

but her appearance was nonetheless very important. The General Counsel stated that theWhite House would not comply with a subpoena. He added that the Commission'soutside counsel believes that the Commission's position is not as strong now that it hasreceived private testimony.

Commissioner Gorton stated that if the Commission issues a subpoena to the WhiteHouse for Dr. Rice's public testimony, the Speaker will bury the extension.



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Commissioner Roemer stated that the first course of action was to issue a statementexpressing the Commission's disappointment.

Commissioner Roemer recommended that the Commission issue a statement that:

1) Makes a strong bipartisan statement on the extension.

2) Urges the President and Vice President to meet with the entire Commission.3) Expresses disappointment regarding Dr. Rice's decision.

The Chair and Vice Chair stated the Commission should focus first on the extension.Commissioners Gorton and Roemer observed thay60-day extension was likely to passwithin the next 24-48 hours. A consensus of the Cbmmission supported issuing astatement along the lines of Commissioner Roemer's recommendation.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste inquired as to the status of dissemination oftfee^PDBreport-*to staff; investigation of Moussaoui and al Qaeda links; and follow-upwith keyconspirators.

On the issue of staff access to the PDB report, the Chair expected that the Commission'srequest would be viewed favorably. The Executive Director added that the Commissionhas already provided the White House with a list of staff names (Marcus, Kojm,MacEachin, Scheid, and Hurley) and detailed justifications for providing them access.The Executive Director described staff follow-up on the PDB information on Moussaoui,and provided a brief report on the process of obtaining information from certainindividuals in USG custody.

The Vice Chair agreed to hold a two-hour meeting with the families.

The Chair adjourned the meeting at approximately 4:15 p.m.


draft minutes of 9/11 commission meeting on febraury 24, 2004

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