Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Council

WEDNESDAY, 4 AUGUST 1915

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Address ·in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 323

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

WED).(ESDAY, 4 AUGUST, 1915.

The PRESIDING CHAIRMAN (Han. W. F. Taylor) took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock.

SUGAR ACQUISITION BILL.

ASSENT.

The PRESIDING CHAIRMAN an­nounced the receipt of a message from the Governor conveying His Excellency's assent to this Bill.

QUESTION. SUGAR AcQUIRED BY GOVERNMENT.

HaN. C. F. NIELSON asked the Secre­tary for J\llines-

" 1. If, when last year, while the price of refined sugar was £19 per ton, the raw sugar millers received £13 2s. 6d. per ton for raw sugar of 94 net titre, t.hcn,-as it is ·proposed by the Govern· ment to fix the price of refined sugar acquired at £25 lOs. per ton and the price of raw sugar of 94 net titre at £18 per ton, there will be, on sugar acquired by the Government, an apparent surplus of about £1 12s. 6d. per ton-what is intended to be done with such surplus, or with any other resulting surplus ·1

"2. What is the amount to be paid for tho refining of raw sugars to be acquired by the Government, to the respective refineries at which such sugars are intended to be refined? "

The SECRETARY FOR MINES (Hon. W. Hamilton) replied-

" 1 and 2. The following particulars have been supplied by the Common­wealth Attorney-General in response to an inquiry from the State Govern­ment:-

.J!J 8. d. Difference between £18 per

ton, price of raw material, and cost of actual quantity raw material at an aver-ago of 94 net titre required to produce 1 ton refined ...

Freight and charges Refining Selling cha rg0s Payment to company ... Reimbursement of Customs

duty on importation of sugar spread over estimates for

1 2 11 1 6 0 1 10 0 0 7 0 0 10 0

current year's crop ... 0 12 8 Allowance for discou:;ts 1 10 7

Total cost .. . £6 19 2 L~aving a balance of about 0 10 0

out of which must be met further cost of administration and incidental charges on seven-tenths of output, and possibly part freight .1nd charges in addition on one-seventh to vr estern Australia and 'I'asmania. ''

ADDRESS I:.l' REPLY. RESUMPTION OF DEBATE.

HoN. B. FAHEY: In recent years it has not been my practice to participate in the debate on the Address in Reply, for the rea­son that I am commencing to look upon

Governor's Speeches as an advertisement by the Government to the electors of their in­tentions rather than of their capacity to carry them into effect. But when I was asked to move the adjournment of this de­bate, it occurred to me that this Speech has a historic flavour about it, and I made no demur. Hence my position here to-day. During the debate, sympathetic and feeling reference has been made to the memory and the servicn of the three han. gentlemen lately of this House who were suddenly called upon, I am sorry to say, during last rece~B, to pay the last. debt of Nature,· and to the Hon. Mr. Hart, who died a fortnight or so ago. With every word and every stmtiment expressed by previous speakers on that melancholy subject I unreservedly asso­ciate myself. It is a debt we all, young and old, will have to discharge some day, and it should be our ambition to leave behind us a record which will merit the appro:1r;tl and elicit the sympathy of our surviving colleagues. Unfortunately, our members are thinning and falling off in recent years like the proverbial autumn leaves, but we must remember that it is Nature's law. She regulates life by a never-ceasing process of decay and renewal. I also desire to ex­tend my sympathy and condolence to and with the Clerk of this House and Mrs. Cos­tin in their sad bereavement through the death of their son, who, I understand, died like a hero in the front ot battle. (Hear, hear!) They will have the consolation dur­ing the remainder of their lives that he was one of those sons of Australia who have immortalised by their undying bravery this young Commonwealth, and that he met his de~tth in the noblest cause that a man could lay down his life for-fighting for the flag oi the Empire and for the freedom and liberties of his own matchless native coun­try-aye, and in his case to free mankind from the thraldom and the heel of Prussian militarism. (Hear, hr-ar !) I now desire to tender mv meed of felicitations to the han. gentleman who has recently been transferred from a lower to a higher sphere in the domain of politics to assume the leadership in the conduct and management of the business of this House. I also desire to congratulate him upon his attainment to Cabinet rank in the counsels of this coun­try. Although the han. gentleman is new to his present environment and to the duties of his responsible position, he is no stranger to the majority of han. members of this House. For many years we have had in­numerable opportunities of hearing the han. gentleman's voice exercised in a higher key and more robust fashion in another" place· than the exigencies of his still more impor­tant position will impose upon him in the calmer. cooler, clearer, and certainly more matured atmosphere of this House. (Hear, hear!) I predict from the sample of the duties he has already carried· out tha_t he will be a success here, and that he w1ll carry out the duties of his office with credit to himself e.nd to the chief who has sent him here. (Hear, hear!) I promise the han. gentleman, however, that before the pro'ba­tion of the first session in this House will have ended. he will have discovered that, after all, his lot has not been cast in a sleepy hollow. He will realise, probably with pleasure to himself, that his mentality and his capa­city for debate will not suffer injury during his association with this House; and I hope that that association, whether long or short,

Han. B. Fahe:u.]

324 Address in Reply. [COUNCIL.] Address in Reply.

will be pleasant. (Hear, hear !) I had not the opportunity nor the advantage of hear­ing the mover and seconder of the Address in Reply. I believe this is the first session in which I have missed hearing those speeches ; but I ha vo read their utterances in the columns of " Hansard." They are what one \Yonld reasonably expect from two hon. members of mature parliamentary experience when discussing a document which literally teems with indicu.ted legis­lation so congenial to their advanced politi­cal views, and so consonant with the prin­ciples that both of them, to do them jus­tice, have been consistently advocating in this Hous0 since I became a member of it. They are·, therefore, to be complimented-not necusarily upon their principles, with some of whi~h I agree, but with others I don't and won't-but upon their consistency even in error-(laughter)-and upon the successful manner in which they have apparentlc· carried out the duty assigned to them.

Han. P. J. LEAHY: What duties are they?

HoK. B. F.\HEY: The duty of discussing the principles of the most historic Speech ever delivered in this House. I see that His Excellency the Governor has paid a tribute to the people of Queensland for their ex­pressions of loyalty to the throne, and for the cordial reception they have extended to himseli as His Majesty's representative in eyery city and centre that he has had occa­sion to 'isit during the short time he has been in Queensland. 'When the present Go­vernor is longer a ,sociated with Queensland, and is more intimatc>ly acquainted with tho sentiments of its people. he will realise that His Majesty has no more loyal and patriotic subjects in the Empire than Queenslanders and Australians genel'ally. Of this they have given and are givin.~.; ample evidence in their heroie conduct and bravery both in Egypt and Gallipoli, and in their voluntarily offering, at every recrmting centre through­out the Commonwealth, their services, aye, and their lives if necessary, to defend the flag of England on sea and shore-the flag of liberty. For I may tell you that, if the flag of England on the sea-God forbid it­should meet with any serious reverse in this world-shaking combat, then Australia would become the land of the golden fleece in the land-hungry eyes of the German Emperor. Of all the crowned heads of Europe, he alone, since he has been on the throne, has been preparing for this titanic struggle with all the ingenuity of invention that modern science <·an suggest to produce instruments of human destruction with which he is to­day flooding Europe in the calamitous atro­cities with which ho is carrying on the war -the greatest in the history of the world in its gigantic dimensions and carnage. And, hon. gentlemen. he is doing it for what purpose? For the specia 1 purpose that he shall be the dictator of Europe and go down in history as a hero. He has laid his plans deeply and well, and he has taken manv years to perfect them-first to attack France without warning and lay her prostrate at his feet, and then turn his cohorts on Ru"'ia -that unwieldy C'llpire of long distances­cripple her for a. whilP, and then turn his attention to England, and lay the English lion prostrate. What for? To strike at the heart of the Empire and bring about its disintog-ntion. to enrich his countrv from the spoils and from the wreckage, and the very

[Han. B. Fahey.

moment he ha•·· been foiled he has perpe­h·ated the greatest barbarities and the great­est atrocities on the n1en, women, and children of Belgium, excelling in deeds of savagery the blood-l'urdling practices of the Kew Guinea head-hunting chiefs. Why has he done this? Because the Belgians-these women, their children, their fathers, their brothers, and their husbands-had the daunt­less heroic courage to rise in arms against the man and his cnhorts who invaded their country, to defend themselves against inva­sion-against a man who has fouled every redeeming feature of civilised life and every ethic in the Christian code. Every thought and every feeling that brightens human life, makn m<tn happy, and lifts him above the beast, this man ha.s callously outraged to gain his own ends. ·when this war is over, let me tell you, hon. gentlemen, that a disintegra­tion or empires will ver:· likely take place, but this procc '' will not affect the Empire of Great Britain. Tho British Empire wiil come out of this \Yar more glorious and more com­petent than before. Her resources haYe nc·. 0r yet been rnarshalled to their full extent, and ultimately the empires of our allies will come out rejuvenated after haY­ing destroyed the ruthless Goth that has attempted to destroy them. I now come to that portion of the Governor's Speech which indicates, at all events, a campaign which will be successful in its results, I hope This Speech is the most unique Speech in the list of Speeches delivered by any Go­vernor in the history of Queensland. It is unique, to begin with, in its phraseology; it is unique in the wide range of subjects it earmarks for legislation; it is unique in the extensive character, the advanced char­acter, and the progressive character of the legislation generally which it foreshadows. It is unique also in its promise to prevent any furth10r alienation of Crown lands in Qurensland.

Eon. P. J. LEAHY: Is that a good thing to do?

Hox. B. FAHEY: I will tell you as I g·1 along. The hon. gentleman has his own hright intelligence to remind him of the evil or the benefit of it. and I have no doubt he has eome to a conclusion long before now.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: I would like some information.

Hox. B. FAHEY: You might like some mformation, but you will have to wait. The Speech is also unique in its promise to bring in legislation to govern and rel!ulate phases o£ our economic !if" which hitherto have not been touched or hampered by statutory law. The fact is, it promises to revolu­tionise the whole of our industrial laws and very likely make a clean sweep of our elec­toral laws; to ,repeal or amend every Ia w m active operatwn at the present moment in Queensland. It is a big order, and I think an order that will not be given effect to this session. It is, in my estimation, the most prolific Speech that h!ts ever been delivered by any Governor to a Queensland Parlia­ment, and, if it only bears fruition com­mensurate with the apparent ambition of it~ authors, then I can only say that they wrll well deserve-and should have it-their country's gratitude. I am not going, at this stage, to discuss everv Bill mentioned in the Speech. To do so would be supererogatory,

Address in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 325

until each Bill with its details is before u3. Until them I will reserve my inde­pendence and my right, as I have always done in this House, to criticise freely and fearlessly every Bill that comes before us from the standpoint of the country's best in­terests. This House is particularly in exist­ence to conserve the interests of the country as a whole, and not those· of any special minor portion of it. There are Bills in the Speech which will, I have no doubt, when they come before this House, contain obstacles at which my hon. friend, Mr. Leahy, and possibly other hon. members, will shy. I may be compelled to shy at one or two of them myself. Recently both political parties in this State presented themselves before the electors -of Queensland and placed their principles and their policies before them, and each alter­nately urged strenuoush· their merits upon the attention of the electors. They also strenuously urged or claimed a mandate from the electors to make the laws and manage the State for the next three years.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: And cut down the prices of goods.

HoN. B. FAHEY: Yes, and alreads they have done it. They based their claim to a mandate upon their past services and upon their published programme of future inten­tions. Need I tell this House the startling result? The electors of Queensland by an overwhelming majority returned the present Government to power.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: By 6 per cent.

HoN. B. FAHEY: A large majority, in­cluding thousands of disappointed, and I have no doubt probably disgusted, Liberals. Let there be no mistake about it, they, in combination with the Labour party, gave a mandate-to whom? To the hitherto re­je(•ted of the people, the Labour party. In fact, th<c electors of Queensland have given the party in power at the present ·day carte blanche to place its policy upon the statute­book of this State, and have given them three years in which to do it. Notwithstand­ing the figure• that have been added, sub­tcact-ed, multiplied, and divided bv my excellent friend, the Hon. P. J. Leahy, they do not minimise for one single moment the importance of that significant fact. If the hon. gentleman feels in any way squeamish, or i E he thinks that he will ver:;- likely rebel against the legislation which will from time to time be placed before us hy th<> Go­vernment, let me tell 'him that. if he develops anv grievance on the subject, th1'n he will have to look bevond the Labour party for the originating ·source and cause of his troubles. The Government really, from the moment that thev assumed office. are to be sympathised \vith instead of being condemned or contemned. They have

assumed office at an unpre­[4 p.m.] cedented period in the world's

history. The greatest war that has ever taken place in the world's his­tory is raging in Europe ; its baleful consequences reaching every neutral nation in the world, throwing a ,train upon the fina.ncial position of the world-upon some nations very likely to breaking point; com­merce pt·acti cally in many countries ruined ; the commerce of the world brought down very likely to half its volume; poverty and the restriction of everything that tended previously to make nations happy almost

ruined, and, added to this, a drought in Queensland leaving ruin and desolation in it,, path, with all the heavy responsibilities that Queensland is called upon to meet in a year or two. My hon. friend should be only too glad to give his sympathy and his assist­ance to a Government whi~h is called upon to breast such a sea of troubles for the next three y011rs. After all, the Government have not made a bad beginning. I am not here to bolster up the Government, but no hon. member of this House can conscientiously say that the present Government did wrong in restoring to the public service of this State what they were justly ent"iled to, and what they were very unwisely deprived of. The public servants when they thought they had a grievance could not very well ventilate it. They could not go on strike, and they did not go on strike-they would very likely have lost their bread and butter. I am not say­ing that it is a fact, but one can read the signs of the times, and apparently on the only opportunity they had they very likely paid the compliment back to those who gave them that compliment, with interest added. I see by a paragraph in the Speech that the Government anticipate and realise what is due to the sons of Queensland who are shed­ding their life's blood freely-giving their lives even-in defence of the hearths and homes of Australia and the prestige of the flag of England. They are making provi­sion for the welfare of these men when they come back victorious to their nativn country. I do not think any hon. member can find fault with them for doing that. In my opinion, that is a 'statesmanlike view to take of their duty. At all events, the step they have taken will induce and impel other young Australians to follow in the footsteps of those who are already fighting for the Empire. From a legislative point of view, I do not think that there is any man or woman from here to Cape York but will give a ready response to the action of the Government in doing that, no matter what their political views may be; and I am glad to say-though I am sorry in one respect­that this is in marked contrast to an order recently issued by the Defence Minister of the Commonwealth that no returned soldier shall be employed in any of the departments of the Commonwealth unless he happens to be a unionist or is prepared to oecome one.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: Did you se01 that in print?

HoN. B. FAHEY: I did.

Tho SECRETARY FOR MINES : Well, that is the first I have ever heard of it.

HoN. B. FAHEY : I can assure the !non. gentleman I read it.

Hon. E. W. H. FoWLES: That statement has been corrected.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : I do not be­lieve the Minister for Defence is the man to ~ay such a thing.

HoN. B. FAHEY: Well, I made it my business on my way to this House to ascer­tain if the order had been rescinded, and I learnt that it had not.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : 'I'here are man,y things attributed to people that are not true.

Hon. B. Fahey.]

326 Address in Reply. [COUNCIL.] Address in Reply.

RoN. B. FAHEY: I hope that the state­ment is not true, because I look upon it as a blot, and the only blot, upon the record of the present Federal Government in or­ganising and marshalling the resources of Australia to their very fullest extent to defend the prestige of the British Empire.

Ron. A. HINCHCLIFFE : Where was this statement seen?

RoN. B. FAHEY: I have it in my hand.

Ron. F. T. BRENTNALL: I saw it in print, too.

The . SECRETARY FOR MINES : You see a lot of things in print that are not true.

RoN. B. FAHEY: Well, I hope for the credit of the Federal Government that the statement is not true. It has been said in the course of this debate that this House is to be abolished, and its right to exist debated at length. Whether this House is to be abolished or not, it is not in the power of the Government to do.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : There is noth­ing in the Speech about that.

HoN. B. FAHEY: Not a word. There are many· more obstacles. than People imagine placed in the way of those who undertake the abolition of this Chamber, should it ever be undertaken. The fact of the matter is, there are some hon. gentlemen of this House who imagine they will never reach Paradise unless they start on the way from this Chamber. Personally, it would not cost me an hour's sleep if this House were excised from the Constitution to-morrow. But, if it were being done, I should fight to the last to prevent it for the reason that I consider the Constitution would be lopsided without it. It has also been said that there is no party in this House and that there never has been. I believe there is no party in this House at present; I hope there will not be in the future. (Hear, hear !) But I say that when I entered this House there were two ·distinct parties here. In most places where 111en o£ intelligenc.-· a,;semble, having fixed views on absorbing subjects, there will be opposition; but I do not think there is any opposition here now, and, as I have said, I hope there will not be. \V e should practise what we preach. If we say there is no op­position and no party here, 'then there should be no opposition and no party. Every man should be free to consider the interests of the country independent of all others and to advocate the interests of the country. And if he thinks the legislation coming here from another plac0 contains features that do not tally with his views of the interests of the country, then he has a perfect right to get up in his place here and say so; ·and that is 'vhat I intend to do. (Hear, hear !) It has also been said that the late Government was ousted from office on the cry of "dear food." When that remark was made, another hon. member interjected that the late Govern­ment received their conge from the electors because the electors wanted a change. That is a very poor compliment to pay to the intelli­gence and political acumen of the eledors of this State. I am not going to say what dealt an ·unmistakable and fatal blow to the late Goyernment, but I do know that the Lib'eral party behind thab Government for the last eighteen months of their regime were more intense, and certainly more successful in dig-

[ H on: B. Fahey.

ging their own grave than in reading the signs of the times. It has also been said that we have caucus government-that the legislation received in this House in future will come from a caucus.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: Doesn't it always oome from a caucus?

HoN. B. FAHEY: I am simply referring to these subjects because they are not men­tioned in the Speech, although I realise that every member who speaks during this debate has a very wide field outside the Speech to speak upon. The Speech was left severely alone by the hon. member who made those remarks, and I am simply saying that I will not a~sociate myself with pinpricks of that kind in this House. I have no sympathy with an argument the logic of which is founded on surmise, or with r<~Jtsoning which is simply devoted to meeting troubles more than half way. No matter how we meet legislation in this Hous<', >\ hether it origi­nates from Cabinet or caucus, if it comes to this House constitutionally, we have to deal with it on its merits. The duty of this House is to receive legislation .from another place constitutionally, to discuss, criticise, analyse, and amend it, if neceo,sary. That is our duty without the slightest prejudice as to its originating source. Who will deny that the late Government, or any other Go­vernment that has been in power in Queens­land for years past, passed legislation by the force of public meetings and by the weight of caucus. These are facts, although it mav not suit us to see them. I have sai·d alreadv that I am not a follower of this Government, nor should -any member of this House be a follower of this or any other Government. If this House has no party, it should not follow any Government. It should be independent of all Governments and of all parties. But, so fa,r as I am personally <"oncerned, I am determined that the present Government shall have fair play in placing its policy before this House and on getting it ple.ced upon the statute-book. But, if the manner in w.hich they are doing it appears to me to be unjust to -any section of the communitv or to anv interest of the com­munity, i shall rais~ my voice in protest against it ; but I will not do that until I have the evidence before me in this ChamlJBr. Everv GoYernment has a mission, and this Go­verm"nent has one. The party that is in powe1· now has been knocking at the door to try and arrest the eyes and the ears of the electors of Queensland in vain until the other day, when they succeeded in gaining the confi­dence of the electors. That being the case, why don't we admit the facts and look them in the face? The Government come to this Hou<e with a mission, and are they likely to follow the modes used by their predeces­sors in shaping their laws, or are they likely to follow the lines followed by their predecessors in bringing about their re­forms? Not at all. When the policy of the present Government and its legislative acts treads on the toes of any hon. gentle­man in this House, that is the time that han. gentleman should get up and make his protest. Until then I am not going to do or say anything that will hamper the Go­vernment, especially in its present position. I consider that they should be assisted.

Address in Reply, [4 AuGusT.] Address in Reply. 327

especially in the administration of the affairs of the country. I thank hon. gentlemen for the courtesy extended to me.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear. lli::ar!

HoN. A. GIBSON: I have no intention whatever of taking up the time of the House. I wrote down the Bills mentioned in the Governor's Speech, and, like the Hon. Mr. Fahey, I will leave them till they come before us. Some of them appear to be of a v_ery debatable character. I trust that durmg the whole of this session when all politi~al parties are endeavouri~g to live on friendly terms one with another no con­tentious Bills will be brought in to break the necessary unity which should exist t0 .. day1 and I. ~eli eve d?es exist, amongst the varwus politiCal parties. At midday I at­tended _a meeting in Albert Square, and I was delighted to hear the remarks which fell from the Premier, and also from the leader ?f the OJ?J20sition, and from another leader m OppositiOn. I was delighted with the thousands of people that were there to hear wh~t was being said, and I believe from their presence they were in sympathy with every v:ord that passed from thosf\ gentle­men's hps. I was delighted with that and the splendid British cheer that was given by the audience made one's heart full. It was thoroughly British in its nature and wJ:en " God Save the King" was s~ng, I t~mk everybody _who could lift their 1 oices, fr OJ? the low~st m the reaJm to the highest, u;rdicated thei_r determination that the ter­nble war wh1eh at present exists will be f?ught to >; ~nish. We speak of anniversary ti~es. This IS an anniversary which, I trust, Will never return under such auspices in the future. I hope, before the 4th August 1916, comes, we shall be able to gather to: gether and congratulate ourselves on the fact that our boys have returned from the field of battle victors over the ~errible enemy that the Hon. Mr. Fahey has ]ust described. I shall I_Iot take up much time, but yester­day, while here, and to-day, my view goes over to the corner where the Hon Mr Hamilton is sitting, and I look for th~ Hon: A. :a;. Barlow, who, during the whole of the time I have been in this House, sat t~ere. or ove_r here. I do not know the time lll the history of this House when there was an Opposition. It was nearly always the same G~v-:rnment with us here, but we had our opmions and we gave expression to them. I generally talked when sugar ;vas on, . and whatev-:r party was in power, If . they mterfered With sugar, I had some­thm_g to say on it, and I hope I shall do so agam. We find that sugar has been the ~roub~e of every Government that has been m existen~e. Hardly one came in that did not c?me m on sugar, and hardly one went out tnat wa~ not sent out on sugar. We are now commg to our senses, and beginning to see that everyone has a right to live and get something for the work they do. I used to ~ook o:t that old gentleman who sat ther": With his powerful capability of ar­r_angmg matters and wonder, at his time of hfe, how he got along so well. He was alv:ays there, never absent, and never re­qmred to come here, as the present leader of the Government, and eay " Well if you don't come "-well, he didn1t like t~ say it e>;actly-" but if you don't come, something Will have to be done." It is not a nice thing for u~ country members who come 200 or 300 miles to find that gentlemen living only

half a mile from the city cannot get here. I hope that the Minister's remarks will have the desired effect, and that we people who come down here these distances and have to travel back again will be overlooked some­what as being too far away to come here for half an hour or an hour's work.

The SECRETARY FOH MINES; It was not the fault of the country members; it was the fault of the city members.

I-Io:-~. A. GIBSON: I am in deep sympathy with the late Hon. Mr. Barlow's family an-d I am quite in sympathy with what wa~ done. There is no doubt that the Hon. Mr. Barlow was one man in a thouFand. He Eecmcd to have a knowledge of everything that came before us, and was always ready, after a great deal of experience, no doubt. I had the Hon. Mr. Brown sitting just here, and when Bills were being di~cu.;sed I often talked matters over with him. In regard to that gentleman, one can only say that he was one of Nature's gentlemen. He was no party man, and supported only those things whjch he believed were for the good of every­body. He got up in his quiet wav, -'aid in a nice way what he had to say, and then sat down. He did not, like some of us try to a~'ert his rights by hard words. H~ was a quiet gentleman-Nature's gentleman-and we Rhall miss him. Then, we had another old gentleman sitting in the corner since fifty years or more ago. As a young man I met him, saw him as years went on, and watched his career. For the last few years he was not able to eay much, and sometimes he had to be led to find his way. He sat qu_ietly there, listening to what was being said, and took an interest up to the last in the "ork of the Council. I do not think anyone can say that he was a party man in any sense of the word. He was a Queens­lander out and out. and had the interest of this great State at heart. The Hon. Mr. Jensen, who sat across the floor, was always on the spot when he thought it necessary to epeak on legal matters. He was an authority on the law and an authority on carrying out the best traditions of this House. He was not an assertive man unless he knew that men were wrong, when he endeavoured to put them right legally in the interests of this Council and the Assembly. I had a very high opinion of the Hon. Mr. Jensen as a lawyer, and I was very sorry to see how suddenlv he moved off this mortal coil. He was not 'a man who took as much out of life ac: he could; he was a student, hut always friendly. All these men have passed away, and, as the Hon. Mr. Fahey has said, the House is thinning down. I think there must be fourteen or fifteen of the old members gone, and I do not think it would be worth while for the Government to interfere very much. We have passed through their first measure ,hy a large majority, and it is to bf' hoped that the others will be of such a character that at least more than half of the members will agree to them. I trust that contentious measures ,at the present time will not be introduced. Much as I would regret to see it, perhaps the Germans will come here an-d thin this House later on unless we are up and doing, unless the money comes in, unless the men go to the front, unless munitions are made. The Government should take the hull by the horns 'and see, without introducing legislation of a contentious character, that munitions are sent to enable the Russians,

Hon. A. Gibson.]

328 Address in Reply, [COUNCIL.] Address in Reply.

the ItalianB, and our own people in Europe to kc.,:p the enemy baek. Everybodv iu­tere:tNl in this great State ·houkl be up .and doing, so that the British nation and the alliBs a,. ocintcd with her shall win this gTeat war.

Hm.;. E. W. H. FOWLES: I thoroughh endorse what has fallen from the lips of th"e Hon. Mr. Gibson with regard to the lamen­ted deaths of the four members of this House. The:: were all men who possused

the respect of this House and [4.30 p.m.] the respect of all Queen;land;

and I feel sure that Parliament and Qneensland are all the poorer because those men-some of them men with very distinguished gifts-have passed away from our pre•ence. I would like also to add mv congratulations to the representative of the Government, and I feel sure that the fact that this House in one day passed through a contentious measure involvmg millions of money and intimate relations with all the States of the Commonwealth, is a convinc­mg proof that the Legislative Council will not offer one word of capricious opposition hl any 15ood measures that may be placed before 1 t. I trust that I shall not be accounted presumptuous if I venture to refer to the fact that the representative of the Government, on the first day on which any actual business was brought before the House-in a fairly full House of twenty-nine ~embers-was able to .get that Bill through m as smooth and raprd a way as any Bill that has ever come before Parliament. As brevity is the order of the day with most speeches in this House, I will pass by a number of refer!'nces that might very well be made to ~he trmes of stress through which we are passmg. They are mentioned in the Gc:vernor's Speech, and in one part of it Hrs Excellency says that we hardly realise the stress of the times. I might venture to differ with that to this extent-that every day ~hat passes seems to be bringing an in­creasmg measure of responsibility to Go­vernments and to peoples. I believe that at the present time the whole British nation is getting fairly awakened to the issues at stake. . \¥ e are in a very hurricane of humamty at the present time. We are in the midst of a world storm, and not one of us can say what will be the issue. ·we can only be quite sure that after this war not a single thing in the world will be the same as it was before, and I, for one, look for great changes in political institutions. Party government has gone overboard in Great Britain, and I doubt if it will ever come back again. I mean two-party Governmflnt -t~<:; ins .an~ th_e outs. Quite a number of pohtrcal mstrtutwns have been put in the melting-pot within the last twelve months and I ~epl su!'e that loftier notes have bee,.; struck m natrona! life and in political life an.d that it will take very many yGars befor~ thrs y, orld degenerates into the bad old times that we find in some countries of the world at the present time. I believe that this war will be the birthday of very many great movem_ents that will be for the betterment of humamty. Personally, I feel sure that not one of us has the slightest pe•;simism with r:gard to the ultimate result of the war. It srmpl, depends upon everv part of the Em­pire" ~oings its little bit":_to use a common e:x;presswn->:nd the result cannot be other­wrse than vrctor:v for tl1e allies. ReferencB has been made in very fitting and eloquPnt words to what Australia has done in this war. and there is scarcely need for a word

[Han. A. Gibson.

to be said in this Chamber except that we are pardonabl;. proud of the magnificent way in which our bo;cs at the front have acquitted themselves. (Hear, hear !) Some of them have been baptised in blood before i11 South Africa, but this time they have risen to an equalitv y;ith the fighting calibre of the best soldiers' that the v. orld has at the present time. (Hear, hear!) We have it from Japan, and from a neutral country like America, that it was the Australian dash and daring that saved the ;ituation at the Dardanelles, and t'hat, perhaps, the troops of many other nations might have gone there and, instead of effecting a land­mg, been beaten back in disgrace and de­feat. Just a word in passing with reference to what the Ron. Mr. Fahey said. I feel sure that no Government in Australia will let a returned soldier suffer in the slightest degree because he left his employment. (Hear, hear!) Any Government that does that ought to be turned out of office at or,ce, and I feel oure that every person in Aus­tralia is in favour of giving our wounded returned soldiers and every returned sol­dier-whether wounded or not, if he has done his part at the front-the most gener­ous treatment on their return heTe. It has been well said by a number of members that this is a time when all contentious legisla­tion should be put on one side. In fact, the demand of the times is not so much for local politics or party politics-or Lilliputian poli­tics as they are sometimes called-as for combining together. On the other hand, there are a number of emergency measures springing out of the war that we must pass. \Ve have already passed one such measure Without going into detailed criticism of the Governor's Speech-which may be left until the Bills come before this Council-I might be permitted to say that I felt considerable disappointment at the absence of three notes in that Speech. There was a complete absence of a call on all citizens for personal and State economy at this time. I know that four weeks ago the catchword for the moment was, " Let us keep on spending Ia vishly ; let us keep business as usual ; let us spend the money as fast as we possibly can; let us have no unemployment; let us keep the wheels of industry going r'mnd all the time." That is good policy, perhaps, until it comes to a finish. But I feel sure that men of maturer years than myself­men who have had much experience in busi­ness-will have seen in newspapers the call for economy. I have clippings here from thirty-five or forty newspapers from all parts of the world, as well as in Australia, which say that economy in State expenditure and personal living is the note that needs to be struck from London to the fingertips of the Empire. They put down munitions of war as the first necessity, and private motor-cars as the last. I have nothing to say against amusement•; I hope that I shA.ll enjoy life right to the end of it.

Han. P. J. LEAHY: You had some the other night.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: That was a good entertainment, there is not the slightest doubt about that. (Laughter.) There is a Yery serious aspect with respect to the neces­sity for economv at the present time. \Ve shall be limited ro Australia for our bor­rowing. We haYe already been told politely from London that there is no more money th<:'re for us, and we shall have to get £20.000,000 in ~\ustralia. We shall want another £20,000,000. It has already been fore-

Address in Reply. (4 AUGUST.] Address in Reply, 329

ohadowcd that on the most conservatiYe esti­mate this w:tr will cost Anstralia not le" than £80,000,000. :::Vlost of us have seen in the newspapers how the public loans of .all the States cspeeially New South Wales, have been ;nounting up tremendouoly within the last tc·1 years. During that period the public loans of tho Commonwealth have almo,st doubled themselves. At the present ti111e we cannot Lorro\v any more money in London, and WA m>ty be sure that other parts of the Empire have also been prevented from borrowing in t.he sarne tvay, and unless we get exceptionally good seasons. the re­sources of Austr:dia will be ta1.ed to the uttermost, and £1,000,000, instead of being thrown ahout "ith a lavish hand by this Government or that, will be worth £2,000,000 before this "ar is oyer. :::Vlost of us who read not only the AustraJian papers but the English papers, have seen how in other directions the note of economy is being struck. There are two things in public life in which we can never economise-the edu­cation of children and the payment of in­terest. The Go,-,3rnment haYe given the public servants something like £60,000, which they may well have earned and have well deserved; but in Victoria the pruning­knife is being applied at the present time in the Government departments ; in \V estern Australia, retreneil,nent is the main thing in the Governor's Speech; in the Tasmanian Parliament, which opened last week, the note of retrenchment was struck. Victoria has just ended the half-year with a deficit of £1,200,000. We do not know exactly what the financial position of Queensland is; we only know that we have a huge interest bill to pay, and that we nave prc-bably only enough loan money to last us until the end of this year. In Western Australia, they have only enough to last until the end of October, and then they do not know where to get any more. Possibly the States in that position may go to Mr. Fisher and ask for a loan, but the Commonwealth may find that they have need for every penny of their money .at the present time.

Hon. F. T. BRENTNALL: They will be told they can get more by taxation.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES : Let me point out that both the t-ltates and the Common­wPalth are taxing the same things :::,t the presont time. 'I'hey are covering the same ground and increasing their ta'Cation.

Hon. F. T. I3RENTNALL: Increasing it heavily.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: Both are tax­ing the land; both are taxing probates; and very shortly both will be taxing incomes. The taxation is steadily accumulating, and must soon reach the breaking-point, and the only way to stop extra taxation is by per­sonal and State economy. That is the note that is being sounded from end to end of Australia and £rom end t<J end of the Empire-economy in personal expenditure and in State expenditure. I -know that this House would like to vote £2,500,000 for building necessary railways, which I under­stand the Secretary for Railways is only too anxious to get built. That might be an excellent inve,tment, but it is simply a mat­ter of money. I regret that no reference whatever is made in the Governor's Speech to the need for economy. The second note that seems to be absent is the need for stim?lating-artifici~lly, naturally. or in any poss1ble way-proauction in Queensland.

(Hear, hear !) I feel sure that, if the Speech were to be written to-day in0tead of having been written fi ,-e weeks to-day, many notes would have been omitted from it, and a few notes, including the note of economy and the note of stimulating production, would have bern found in it. Is it not a disgrace to Australia at the present time that w'' are importing butter from " Brother J ana­than" 1 Ab,olutely the finest continent in the world is importing butter from America at the present time.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: The drought is answerable for that.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: \Ve are aLo importing wheat and other things.

Hox. E. W. H. FOWLES: Exactly. At the present time we are importing wheat, as we did in 1902, from the Argentine. Two of the prime nece>osities of life are being imported from a country 7,000 miles distant -half-wav round the world. I almost think the Speech would have been wiser if it had only that one note in it, apart from the war and other necessary referencBS. Stimulating production in times of peace is a very neces­sary thing ; but in times of war it is a thousandfold more nece·,sary. I almost think we should go as far as to grant a bonus of 2s. 6d. per acre on every additional acre planted with maize and 2o. 6d. on every new acre planted with wheat.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: And how much on sugar?

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: And on sugar, too. What is the good of paying high prices, or of fixing prices, or of increasing wages for anybody, unless the things are there to be bought? Matches once cost 1s. per box; at the present time they are 2kd. per gros~, or something like that.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: You can manu­facture matches, but you cannot manufac.­ture rain.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: I do not know whether something could not be done in that direction. I sec nothing in the Gover­nor's Speech about the conservation of water I see nothing in it about artesian wells. I see nothing in it about conserving the rain that does fall in Queensland. I say the average rainfall. Surely at a time like this, when our economical forces, in the way of meat and other things, are being developed to feed the army; in a time like this. when half the produce of the nation io t~ken a way from the fields and sent right to the front to feed the soldiers; when you are not getting half the number of people producing, surely the producing end of the thing should be the DDO aim of any Govern­ment, and they should say, " In times of peace let us look after tho man on the land, and get a thousand men where there was one before."

An HOXOURABLE MEMBER : They are all at the front.

Hox. E. w: H. FOWLES: How much more necessity, then, for stimulating produc­tion by those who are left! Look at what the Germans are doing in France at the present time ! They are sowing 250,000 acres of wheat by Belgian prisoner;;, at the point of the bayonet.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: The farmers last year were encouraged to put in ad­ditional crops, and very few of them have done so.

Hon. E. W. H. Fowles.]

330 Address in Reply. [COUNCIL.] Address in Reply.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: I am pointing out what Germany is doing at the present time. We know that Germany at the present time has enough food already to last them for the next fifteen month?, and they are going on rieaceably producing at the present time.

Hon. F. T. BRENTNALL: Peacably! '!'hey are forcing them at the point of the bayonet.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES : Yes, some of them are. but a great army of soldiers is working all the time. In the face of that, does it not look a wise thing to stimulate production? I do not wish to offer captious criticsim at all with regard to the Govern­ment policy, because we are here to help them to the fullest extent in this terrible time of stress. vV e hope, in regard to this Labour Government, great things from it. They have come in in a terrible crisis in the history of the country, and their patriot­igm and ability will be taxed to the utmost to guide Queensland round this awful corner in her national histon-. But when we need production so much, !md when we need to encourage the farmer on the land, thi$ is not the time when we should cut him down in his prices for the things he has got.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : Why should any member of the community exploit the market?

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: I am thinking of the farmer who finds he is able to get a little more for his produce, and who says, "Now I will be able to make up in a good year what I haye lost through two or three bad years. I will be able to make up for the drought and be able to carry on." Then the Government say, "\Ye will only give you so much for your produce." I should not wonder if the farmer went on strike and said, "I will just grow enough for myself." \Ve must remember that the far­mer is the only man in the community who can grow enough for himself. He is the only independent man in the community. He might say, " I will go on strike. I will not grow any more for the community if I am going to be forced to sell my. wheat at 5s. per bushel as they had to do m New South Wales." They admit that that was a mistake, as they have had tD pay 6s. 8d. per bushel for Argentine wheat within the last few weeks.

An. HOKOURABLE MEMBER : The farmer8 were satisfied.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: According tr, a recent paper. one farmer said he would rather allow his wheat to run out at the railwa,~· station than sell it for 5s. per bushel. But my argument is this-regulate prices tc:. an extent if necessary, but do not end with the farm0r. Many other people are making money out of the war at the present time. A man who has a bit of galvanised iron to sell wants 25 per cent. extra for it. The man who has clothes-props for sale wants to put up the price at the present time, and every n1Pmber of the community is putting up prices. Why? Because produc­tion has fallen off. That is my whole argu ment; and at a time like this, rather than fly in and regulate prices, the better plan is to start at the other end and flood the country with produce. Stimulate production in every possible way so that the people here can say, " Well, butter is as oheap as anything, so to speak, and we have

[Hon. E. W. H. Fowles.

plenty of wheat and can export it. We have plcntv of wheat to make into flour, and we can send it to Java or Japan." \Ve would really make money out of our own industries by stimulating production, and I think a matter of £5,000,000 spent purely on stimulating production would be a wise thing at the present time. We have just come to this most interesting point-the point of price fixing·. Some of us remember rending just what happened in ~he. past .. I will not wearv the House, but I wrll Just pomt out that in France, in 1794, there happened to be a similar sort of thing to what is going on in the British Empire at the present time. There was a war scare, and there was a limitation of production, and the Government dPpointed a Committee of Public Safety to fix the maximum price to be charged throughout France fQ1· bread, meat, fuel, tobacco, and, a few days later, for all eatables. What happened? Of course. this expedient, which is a deceptive expedient altogether, has been tried long ago. I suppose it was tried by Moses down in Egypt.

Hon. T. M. HALL: It was tried by Joseph.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: Yes, and it was tried by Diocletian in 310 A.D., and it was a. complete failure. What happened in France was this: The farmers were not willing to bring their crops into Paris to dispose of them at the low legal price, and compulsion by military force was applied. The farmers refused to grow. Scarcity grew to famine; bakers and grocers' shops were raided. Violations of the law by charging a higher price than the legal one were incessant, although severely punished by fine, imprison­ment, and the pillory. In some =ses the offenders' houses were pulled down. The severity of the ]a w and its relentless applica­tion may be seen from two instances-a woman was fined heavily, imprisoned for six weeks, and exposed in the pillory for two hours for selling two lettuces for lOd. ; a man got the same punishment, but with four hours' pillorv, for selling a glass of wine at over the 'legal price. Paris and other cities failing to get sufficient supplies from the country around them, were obliged to import wheat from America-exactly what poor Queensland is doing at the present time, and yet we have millions of acres ready to be sown. Paris remained for three vears on r,ations as if she were besieged, and the business of providing corn for the capital was one of the main anxieties of the Govern­ment. Taine, one of the clearest heads and most facile writers in the nineteenth century in France, o·ives a terrible picture of the misery and ~ulfering resulting from the fix­ing of prices. The lesson history taught on that occasion is that the fixing of prices, even as a temporary expedient, let alone as a continuous policy, is disastrous to the whole State. Instead of price-fixing we should Mtimulate production so that prices would naturally fall. When everything is plentiful in the way of the necf\ssaries of life, then even the man with the smallest wealth is e,ble to get what he wants. The que,tion of stimulating production might very well be taken into the most serious con­sideration by the Government, and the farmer and the primary producers helped in every possible way, even to the extent of giving a most generous bonus. I feel sure, if production is stimulated at the present time, it would tremendously help, not only

Address in Reply. [4 AUGUST.) Address in Reply. 331

the working classes, but it would help to­wards the solvency of the nation. There is only one small argument ao-ainst it. It might be said that the war will bo over in a few months. We do not know. The other argument. ie that we .haye got along very well up nll now, and It IS not worth while. The way to provide for twelve months ahead is to plant now. This has been done in Canada. In ~act, Canada is bursting with wheat, and, If we only had the ships to bring the wheat here, there would be no necessity to get it from the Argentine.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: We encourao-ed the farmers last year to put in as m~~h whe_at as they could, and actually a"isted tD do It, and they are still being assisted with money to enable them to plough their land and put in wheat.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: That seems tu be a 4esirable ~o!icy, and it should be given the Widest publicity and advertised through­out Queensland.

Han .. F. T. BRENTN_ALL: The giving of a bonus IS another questiOn altogether.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: It "is not a bonus. They were as;isted to plouo-h their land. "

RoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: My plea would be for sorr_rething on a much more generous scale. It IS a new Government· it is a new broom; and it has to make its reputation 'at the present time, and it has an unex­ampled opportunity to do it.

Ron. P. J. LEAHY: You could guarantee a minimu1n price.

RoN. E. W. H. FOWLES : That could possibly be done. If you could guarantee the farmers a minimum price of 3s. 6d. a hushel for wheat for the next ten years, you would find the country between Roma and Gharle­ville-the riche't belt in the world-woula not be simply blacksoil paddocks looking like a road, as they are at the prr;,ent day. That belt <;>f. country would be producing large quantities of wheat. Some wider and more generou~ effort might be made by the Government 111 order that the capricious nature of our clin~ate might be overcome, and the sea-ons mrght be balanood in that way. Take just the instance that is before us in connection with the Sugar Acquisition Act. The Act that we passed yesterday I believe, place• tJ:>e sugar industry on a st{re, substantial footmg, and the farmers are satisfied.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: Well that was an interference with private ente;·prise.

. HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: A very good mterference.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : If it is good in one case, it should be good in other cases.

HoN. E. \V. H. FOWLES : It ~s impos­sible to please everyone, but that IS an ex­cellent. start for the present Government. The thu·d note that s<·ems to be missing from

the Speech-and I am sure han. [5 p.m.] members will' pardon me if I

refer to it here--is the fact that there is not the slightest reference to the control of the liquor traffic during the pre­sent war.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: That is not a dry subject. (Laughter.)

Hon. F. T. BRENTNALL: It is a lively sub­ject, judging by Monday night's meeting.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: Well, there was a quorum at that meeting, anyway.

Han. P. J. LEAHY: I thought there was a " count out." (Laughter.)

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: There was a debate on the subject last week in the New South Wales Assembly, and one of the· speakers used these words-

" One of the most striking effects of the present war has been to precipitate the question of the control of the trade in alcohol in a most extraordinary man­ner all over the civilised world, and it is particularly in connection with those nations which are engaged in warfare that this revolution in regard to alco­holic liquor has come about."

I should like Queensland to be included in the civilised world, but I find that this is the only State in the whole of Australia in which no mention is made in Parliament of the control of the liquor trade during the war.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : The policy of the Government is to nationalise the liquor trade.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: But when will that policy be intro:iuced?

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: After the war. The SECRETARY FOR MINES: At the earliest

opportunity.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: Apart from what is being done in other civilised coun­tries and throughout the British Empire, there is need for an emergency measure here at the present time. There is not a brewer or a publican in Queensland who was pleased at the soldiers' riot the other night. That started in drink. And there is not a man engaged in the trade in Queens­land who is pleased to see a drunken soldier in uniform reeling down Queen street. I further believe that the publicans and brewers of Queensland-I am giving this from a publican of some repute in this city­would be quite willing for some curtailment of the hours of being open during the present war. The only condition which was given to me was, " I am not sure whether So-and­so will agree to it, or whether it will be generally observed; but for my part I would hE> quite willing to open at 8 in the morning and close at 10 at night." Everybody knows that in South Australia they had an Dver­whelming majority in the referendum in favour of closing at 6 o'clock. The latest figures I have are that 95,614 electors were in favour of closing at 6 o'clock, and about half that number were for the retention of the present hour of 11 o'clock.

Han. 'I'. 0. BEIRNE: Did thev introduce a Bill to give effect to the refe~·endum?

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: Xot yet, but the referendum has been taken. I do not think the final figures are yet in. They had to come some distance, and they have to be counted; but the latest figures I have been able to get are 95,614 in favour of closing at 6-a majority of some 40,000. In Victoria the hours have already been reduced with­out a referendum by six or seven hours a day. The Government simply brought in a Bill making provision for the closure of the houses at 9.30 p.m.-they used to be open until 11.30 p.m. I suppose some han. mem­bers remember that before 1885 the public­houses in this State were open from 4 o'clock

Hon. E. W. H. Fowles.]

332 Address in Reply. [COUNCIL.] AddTess in RPply.

in the morning until 12 o'clock at night. Those were the hours fixed in section 41 of the Liquor Act of 1?63. 'fhe;: were also allowed to open for sn hours on Chnstmas Day and Good Friday, and from 1 to 3 p.m. on Sundays-that is to say, they were allowed to remain open over 120 hours a week.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: Does not the present law compel a man to keep open?

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: l'<o. Section 36 of the Act of 1912 provides that his hours mav be from 7 o'clock in the morning until 9 o'clock at night.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: V\?'"ell, if they \vere patriotic, they could do it themselves.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: They are not bound to keep the bar open after 9 o'clock at night, and they need not open befm:e 7 o'clock in the morning. In Tasmama­which used to be considered a thirsty place­the Governor's Snccch last week fore­shadowed the introduction of a Bill to close at 10 o'clock-no ;·eferendum-no burking the question or shelving it like that, and also a later referendum with reference to closing at 6 o'clock. In New South Walee, a motion was brought before the' Assembly last week, and it v. as most adeptly side­tracked. The Government said they had no intention of bringing in ~ referendum, chiefly on account of the cost I taking the referendum. One hon. member pointed out that the dr·ink bill of New SL.rth \Yales was £8,000,000 per year, and that th~ cost ~f a referendum on a generous estrmate would be £50.000, representing only about two days' drink bill; so that the cost of the referendum was a very small item. In Western Australia, the agitation is already commencing, and 't referendum ha,, been pro­mised in Parliament about a fortnight ago.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: Is not the agitation ·commencing here?

The SECRETARY F:JR MINES : They· have State hotels in Western Australia, you know.

HoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: They have State hotels there. Queensland is the only State, excepting New South \Vales, in which no reference whatever has been made to the question of the temporary control of the liquor trade during the war. It is quito unnecessary lwre to refer to what our allies have done in this matter. Even Ger­many has closed nil hm· hotels except between the hours of 2 p.m. and 7 p.m. Except for those five hours, all the cafes of Berlin, Leipzic, and ,Jena-where they used to " Hoch der Kaiser " all the clay and all the night-are ';lOW closed In that country they could remam open for twenty-four hours a day on payment of a bigger license fee than if they only keep open for nine or fifteen hours a day.

Hon. A. HINCHCLIFFE: Russia has gone one better than that.

Hox. E. W H. FOWLES: Rus··ia has gone one better. I have an extract here from an English paper, referring to what Russia has done. 'That quotation reads-

" In the course of his great speech on the war crisis, delivered at Bangor on Sunday, 28th February, the Right Hon. D. Lloyd George, M.P., said: Drink is doing us more damage in the war than all the German submarines put together. What has Russia done? (Cheer!l.) Rus· sia, knowing her deficiency, knowing how unprepared she was, said, ' I must

tllun. E. W. H. Fowles.

pull myself ingether. I am not going to be trampled upon, unready as I. am. I will use all my resource;.' \Yhat IS tire first thing ;.he does? Sl:e . stops the drink. (Cheers.) I was talkmg .to :M. Bark, the Rus.·ian i'vlinistcr of Fmance, a singularly able man, and I ask~d, '\Vhat has been tho result?' He sard, 'The productivity of labour, the amount of work which is put out by the work­man has gone up between 30 and 50 per 'cent.' (Chenrs.) I s.aid, 'Ilo;n do they stand it ithout .therr liquor? and he replwd ' Stand rt? I have lost revenue over it up to £65,000,000 ~ year, and we certainly •Jannot afford It, but if I propo1'0d to put it back there. would be a revolution on Russia.' 'l'hat rs what the Minister of Finance told me. He told me that it is entirely attributable to the act of th0 Tsar himself. It was a bold and courageous step-one of the most heroic things in the war. (Cheers.) One afternoon '" e had to po,,tpone our conference in Paris, and the FrPnch i'v1inister for Finance said, 'I have got to go to the Chamber of Deputies, because I am proposing a Bill to abolish ab­sinthe.' (Cheers.) Absinthe plays the same part in France as \1 hisk;> plays in this country. It is really the worst form of drink used, not only among workmen, but among other classes as WAll. Its ravages are tenible, and they abolished it by a majority of something like ten to one that ··1fternoon. (Cheers.)"

Absinthe of course, in France takes the same part as 'liqueurs and whiskies in our own countrv ; so that France has taken steps, which :have since proved successful, to abolish absinthe. Russia has abolished vodka. Kit­chener himself had spoken against drink.

Hon. T. M. HALL: What about the Crown Prince? He gave the troops liquid fire l

RoN. E. W. H. FOWLES: The Crown Prince may have done so, but at all events Germanv has seen that they want clear heads to prosecute this war. That is what other nations are doing. That is what our allies are doing, and I think it w~mld be a wise thing for Queensland, as an mtegral part of the British Empire, not one whit behind any part of the Empire in loyalty or in physical efficiency-if the Government of the day 'said that for the period of this war we shall practise and inculcate economy, and, since whisky is hardly a necessary com­modity, or beer even, we will ask the public to get all they want in twelve hours of the day instr,.ad of in seventeen hours of the day. I feel suro, if the Government brought in a Bill to bring that about, it would be passed by an overwhelming majority. Limit it if you like for the period of the prPsent war. i: know there are men here who might sug­gest certain r~a~ons why. th~ Government might not be wrllmg to brmg m such a mea­sure at the preRent time, either through pres­sure of other business, or for other reasons that might suggest themselves at the pre­sent time; but we feel sure that this Go­vernment will look at things fairly and squarely, and will have the courage to do what it considers to be right in the matter, no matter whose interests might be tempor­arily affected b~· it. I feel sure, _if the British Government had not been dilatory in the matter, as Lloyd George said. if the British Government took the matter in hand and prohibited drink for a period .o~ _the war, il'l the same way as her unCivrhsed

Address in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Address in Reply.

ally, as we are pleased to call Russia, has done, then the Act would have stood out as the greatest reform in this century, equalled only hy the abolition of slavery. I want to look at this question from a common-sense point of viewe and not from a rabid temper· ance point o± view. Those of us who read the debates that have taken place in Vic­toria and l\<ew South \Vales on the matter, and the arguments that have been put for­ward there, will see that it is not so much an ethical question at the present time­not a question of morals or anything like that, but an economic question, and the country that is best fitted physically and mentally, and that has reached the highest point of efticiency, is the country that is going to win in a w:tr like this. I thank hon. members for listening so patiently to these three points. Anvthing further that suggests itself to me with regard to the Governor's Speech may well be left till a later date. I can only promise personally that I shall endeavour to give not only my time in tho House, but, what E'Ver;>t other member does, a close stud,e· of the Bills pre­sented to it. It was said by one member that this Honse onlv works for about one and a-half hours in the "eek. That is the time occupied in talking, and the rest of the week is spent in preparing facts and collect­ing information to put before hon. members. I feel sure that the representative of the Government is convinced that this House will be "trongl:v in support of "nv measure for the public g<;od that he may· put before it, and any crrtimsm that may be offered will not be in opposition, but most friendly and candid criticism.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: I do not intend to tako up any length of time in answering the different speakers who have preceded me on this Address in Reply. In fact, I thought at ono period that it would not be worth my while speaking at all but thought it might appear dis~ourteous to' hon. members if I did not have a few words to say. There have been some assertions made during the debate which I wish to con­tradict on beha!f of the party to which I belong, as I thmk the,- are unfair. It is no use sa;.·ing. that. then; is no such thing as party feelmg m this House. Every rnem her of this Chamber has been sent here by the politi~al party tn which he was atta0hed before entering this House and he can no more eli vest himself of his 'political feelings, simply because he has been sent here, than he can divest himself of his reli­gion or Rnything else of that nature. It is embodied in every one of us. We know when a generd election takes place wA are all electors, and we take sides with one party or the other. It is no use trying to s~y that we have no party feeling or party l11as, as every rr.Lan has party feelings; everv man belongs to some political part:v or an­other, ~ut I must say, after listening to qom" o. the speeches that have been de­liv red rl;uing this debate, that thC' line of clemar,-,nti.on het:Yeen P'u:ty and non-party speeches IS so fa_mt that rt would require a pretty strong mwros~ope to discover it.

Hon. E. W. H. FowLER : There are thirty­nine parties in this House.

The SECRETARY FOR J'.1TNES: ThPro may he, but I. haY<; hPard just as strong pa.rtY speech0s 111 this Chamber during this debate as I have hcnd in tho othPr Cham­ber, so it is no U'3C, us dra\'dng a cloak over our feoiings end trying to mUke out \Ve are something :vo are not. I have been a Laboul'

man all my life, and I have Labour prin­ciples embodiod in mo. I have been sent hero by the party to which I have belonged for years, because I am a member of that party, just the same as every other bon. member in the Chamber has been sent here bJ· the party which happened to be in power at the time ;e,,nd which they supported. It is just as Ycell for us to really understand each other and let us throw away any mask tl,at we may try to draw over thing·s; let u.l show up in our true light. Of course, the longer wo live the more democratic we may get in our Yiows. 'V e aro ahvays lea-rning, and if \ve lived for a thomand ye<trs we

auld still be karning. Many of us, no doubt, hav~ cast df oome of the viewc> they ],r ld in Lw past and taken on fruh ones. The man who never change~ prc>bably has no opinion to change. I must congratulate hon. nH~Inbers on their utterances, and I am very thnnkful to them for thD promises oJ support that they are willing to give to the pro­gramme now before the Council. I am also pleased at the spirit with which that pro­gramme has been received by the Council, b· ·:;mso. no doubt, it is different legislation to what has usually been placed before hon. m('mbers. It is legislation that, I suppose, under other ciruunctanceo, would have met with very strenuous opposition from mem­bers of the Council, hut it must be recollected that everything that is contained in that progra1nn1o, every rr1easure there has been in the programme of this party for years and years.. was before the electors \Yhen the Labour partj >vent to the country. The Labour party had a straight-out programme to put before the electors, so that every man and woman in this State knew what the;, 'Yere voting for when they voted for the Labour party. It is a policy that has b; en endorsed by a majority of the eledors of the country, and I am gL1d t0 ·,ee that hon. members recognise that. and are willing to give it generous approvaL I do not ex­pect hon. members to forf'go any rights or privileges that they have. It is right for >ncmbers of this Chamber to criticise, and, if they <:an, amend Bills as they are passing through. I must say that the speech de­livered b:v the last speak<>r, the Hon. Mr. Fowk,, w<ts very well thought out. It was a speech worth listening to, and there is no doubt th<tt there is a good deal of truth in many of the statements he made this after­noon. It is quite true that this Government has come into power <tt a time unprece­dented, you might say. in the history of -any nation. \Ve are faced with problems, both industrial and economic, at the present time, and others, I suppose, will present themselves in th" future ; but. as I say, we have been sent hero by the electors of the State, and we have to fa~e those problems and meet them in the manner we think best in the interests of tho community. We will have -difficultic,, I suppose, in regard to finance. I suppose the "•ll', especially the turn of events in Russia through the Germans driv­ing the Rm,ians back a bit, will tend to make tho money market more stringent than it has been in tho past. However, let us take the most optimistic view we can and hope that things will be hotter in the ncar future than seems likely at present. Of the ,,tatements made b0• some speakers, one wa, a cruel statement and had not a vestige of truth in it. That was that anv soldier re­turning from the war will not 'be employed by the Government unlc•ss he takes a union

Han. W. Hamilton.]

234 Address in Reply. [COUNCIL.] Address in Reply,

ticket. One hon. member said he read that that wa' said by the Minister for Defence. I know the Labour Ministers in the Aus­tralian Parliament, ·and I know the Labour Ministers in the State Parliaments, and I say that they have just as much manhood in them and just as much principle as any other :Ministers, and I am satisfied that it is a libel on Senator Pearce, the Minister for Defenc,,, to attribute such a statement to him.

Hon. B. FAHEY : It was said by the mili­tary authoritiPs, at all events.

The SECRETARY FOR :MINES: I would not put anything beyond the military authorities after having seen a little of their administration in the Enoggera camp. Simply because the military authorities say these things, it is not right to attribute them to the ::\1inister. This Government, when it came into power, stated to the public ser­vants who volunteered that all their rights would be protected. 'l'here are several young men in the department over which I preside-six young men; one especially, Mr. 0' Brien, the warden at Mount Morgan, threw up a position of £350 a year to go to the front-who have volunteered, and they have asked for leave, and I have told every one of them that their interests and their senioritv will be looked after. Some of the positions am not filling, and those that. I am filling will only be filled temporarily, and, if those men come back, even withoe~t leg~, if I can put them m a position, I will do so. (Hear, hear !) I am speaking now fo1· every member of the Government. No public servant who has volunteered will suffer through it in regard to seniority or anything else. I make this assertion, yet it has been said that if they come back, if they will not take a union ticket, they will not be employed. I say that if a more partisan utterance than that can be made I would like to hear it. Some of the economic problems with which we are faced now have not been caused bv the war alone. We would have been faced with them if there had been no war. Take, for instance, the sugar question we were dealing with yesterday. There is a big drought on, and, if there had been no war, we would have had to face the economic position brought about by that drought. We have had great losses in stock, and there has been a big partial failure in the sugar crop. We know very well that, as far as dairymen are concerned, they are fighting for their lives, and the W<tr is not responsible for that; the drought is to be blamed. It is all very well for hon. members to say, "Go in for irrigation." vVe have no facilities in Queens­land for irrigation like they have in some other countries. There are some places where irrigatbn would be possible, but hon. members know very well that at places like Roma and Charleville, where cultivation is possii.lle, irrigation is almost impossib1e be­cause there are no places to store large bodies of water with which to irrigate the country, and, as far as irrigating v.rith artesian water is concerned, the cost r>f put­ting down an artesian bore in some of those districts, if very deep, would over-capitalise the land that could be irrigated.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: And the water is not suitable in manr instances.

The SECRETARY FOR MDTES: The Hon. Mr. Fowles stated that the Government should do all they could to stimulate produc­tion, that they should encourage the farmers

[Hon. W. Hamilton.

to put in more wheat and give them a bonus if necessary, and so on. I say that, while the farmers can make more money at dairy­ing, they will not go in for wheat. I rem'!m­ber when the last Land Act was gomg through, Mr. Hunter, the pre·,ent Sec.·otary for Public Lands, tried to get ,a provision put in the Act that every selector who acquired an agricultural farm under that Act would have to cultivate a certain por­tion of it. Some of them do not cultivate one acre simply because more money-I do not know wh2ther it is easier or not--can be made out of dairying. Last year I remember that the Denham Gover!l'nent a-sked the farmers to put more land under cultivation, and offered to find them money to assist to put crops in, and also to find the seed wh~at for planting. I have seen some areas whwh were planted with Government assistance in the Wondai district, and surely, if the Go­vernment find the money to plough the land, and find seed wheat, prices at present pre­vailin()' are quite sufficient even if they get no bo~us at all. In order to stimulate pro­duction it would be necec,<ary to force dairy­men to put more land under cultivatiop., ]:>e­cause they will sooner carry on dauymg because it returns money quicker.

Ron. B. FAHEY: A lot of therr. cannot get lahour to cultivate.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: The hon. member spoke of retrenchment in the other States. I hope we do not need to go in for retrenchment-that is retrenchment as we knew it in the past in this St3:te. \Ve have good avenues for taxation whrch have not so far been touched. Take, for instance, pastoral leases. I am one of those who have always held that we do not get sufficient rent from our pastoral leases. Every hon. member wh_o knows our W es~ern country knows the brg pastoral holdmgs there are in that part of the country, and thev know that the grazing farmers are paving, in some instances, 3d. and 4d .. an acr:e where the pastoral lessee is only payr_ng !d. or ~d. per acre for the same qu~l.rty of land, and some years ago a pro_vrsw_n was inserted in the Land Act rendermg rt impossible for the Government to get an increase of more than 50 per cent. above the rent for the pr"vious period.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: That was put in by the Kidston Government.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: The hon. member is quite right; it was put in by the Kidston Government.

Hon. T. O'SULLIVAN: Before that, I think.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: No; it was put in the Land Act of 1905 by_ ~he Kidston Government. It was a provisiOn that should never have been inserted in any Land Act. That is one source of revenue that we can resort to. Then there are other sources of taxation. \Ve can tax wealth. Wealth should be taxed, especially at a time like this.

Hon. T. M. HALL : Tax the stadium. The SECRETARY FOR MINES: Yes,

the stadium and sports; and we migh~ also tax all thee,e picture shows. New pwture shows are opening every \Veek. and as you go along the street you. see crowds of. people going into them at a time of stress hlw the present. That it should be _so does not redound verv much to the credrt of Austra­lians. The ·Hon. Mr. Fowles deplored the fact that there was no mention of any

AddreBB in Reply. [4 AUGUST.] Addres8 in Reply. 335

amendment of the Liquor Act. 'vV ell, the policy of this Government and of the Labour party for years past has been to nationalise the liquor traffic. We hope to bring that about some time; but we cannot do every­thing all at once. We have a great deal to do. and we have only been in office a few months, and you cannot do all these thing, without money. ·we hope that with time we shall be able to put many of the planks in our platform on the statute-book, and we hope that that will be one of them, because I hold that that is the only way in which the drink traffic is going to be coped with. My own opinion is that the absolute prohibitionist is the greatest enemy of temperance reform, because there are thousands of people in the community who are willing for some reform, or for the nationali,ation of the liquor traffic, who are not in favour of the total abolition of the trade.

Hon. E. \V. H. FoWLES: And lighter liquors, as they have m Germany and Norway.

The SECRETARY FOR :MINES: Then the hon. member deplored the interference of the Government with the farmers in fixing prices. He might as well say we have no right to intnfere with a dairyman putting water into his milk. It has been said that the Kew South \Vales Government had no right to prevent exploiters 'ecuring the wheat crop of the State and to acquire the crop themselves; but now it is admitted that that was one of the best things that was ever done to the farmers of New South \Vales, because many of them had sold their crop to speculators for forward delivery ar 3s. 6d. a bushel, whereas when the Govern­ment commandeered the wheat they guaran­teed to give them 5s. a bushel, at the same time annulling all contractf'. It is just the ;c;ame with butter in Queensland; it is just the same with meat to-day in Queensland. When I wa.s out in the Winton district one grazing farmer told me that he had 12,000 fat wethers, but he could not get an offer for them. At that time people in Brisbane were paying 6d. per lb. for mutton. If any hon. member will reckon up the price of fat wethers at 6d. per lb., he must see that there is something wrong in connection with the price people pay the butcher and the price the grower gets. One han. mem­ber said this afternoon that the price of every kind of commodity was being raised. The price of all the necessaries of life is going up, and :i·et at the same time these people are crying out to the working man, "Don't. ask for more wages ! Don't go on strike ! You should be patriotic in thf'se times." What is the good of asking a working man with a wife and a lot of chil­dren not to ask for more wagPs, and not t~ go on strik0. when he sees every day the ·necessaries of life are rising in price-when everyone who has anything to sell that he and his family require in order to live is raising the price of that commodity 'l

Hon. E. W. H. FOWLES: Is it not the growing scarcity of things that is causing the rise in price?

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: It is not always due to the scarcity of thing~. It is rings and combines that ra,ise prices. There is no scarcity of meat in Australia. The rise in price is due to the meat being ;;ent out of the country. Since the war started the value of cattle in Queensland

has increased by £1,500,000. Why should that be in a time of streos, and at a time when people are being told they should be patriotic? I know some of these people have contributed very generously to the war funds, but I know any amount o! o,thers who have not done so; and I say 1t 1s no use asking the working man to be patriotic, not to ask for more wages, and not to go on strike. when those who have commodities t.l sell are putting up the prices of those commodities every day. The Hon. Mr. Brentnall said, " \Vhat is the reason for having to increase the number of Ministers h ten, when eight salaried Mini,ters carried out the work before?" This is the first time I have heard that there were only eight Ministers carrying on the business of the country. There have always been nine 1\Iini•ters in the past. The Hon. Mr. Bar­low was an honorary Minister, and he was always assisting in carrying on the work of the country, and during the short time I have been a member of the Cabinet I have found that ther,e is plenty of work for ten salaried Ministers. There is plenty of work in each department for one Minister, if he is not going to be a mere rubber stamp-and that has been the case a good deal in the past. There has benn a good deal of the rubber stamp business about the administration hitherto, and any Minister who makes himself cognisant with every paper that comes before him, and with the contents of every document before he signs it, will find his hands full.

Han. E. IY. H. FowLES : He would be the most hardworked man in Queensland.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: He would. I think the members of the present Ministry are just as hardworking and just as anxious to do a fair thing by the coun­try for what they get out of it as anyone else in the community. So far as party government is concerned, there is no use saying we have not got any party feelings. We have; but at the same time, while I recognise that other people may have their feelings, I do not wish to curtail the privi­lege that hon. members have of criticising whatever they wish. The Han. Mr. Leahy said he was sorry that there was no mention in the Governor's Speech of a land policy. Well, we have promised a Land Act Amend­ment Bill.

Han. P. J. LEAHY: I said "land settle­ment."

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: The Government have a policy of land settle­ment. The Secretary for Railways and the Secretary for Lands are collaborating, and the~- are devising a scheme for building new railways into districts which will open up new land for settlement. When you come to talk about land settlement, we have rail­ways in Queensland sufficient to settle 20,000,000 of people if the land along the railways was only opened for them. You can travel on railways in Queensland for hours without seeing a single habitation, and travelling through good land, too. Let any han. member go from here to Roma, and he will see how land along that railway is settled. It is just the same in every dis­trict you go through.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: Can't you do some­thing to settle it?

The SECRETARY FOR MINES : A good stiff land tax will make the people open

Hon. W. Hamilton.]

336 Address in Reply. [COUNCIL.] Address in Reply.

t,ha t land to settlement. Where people are holding large areas of land against settle­ment thPy should be taxed to bring it into use.

Hon. P. :Y1cRPHY: Especially ne'tr a rail­;ray.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: We know very well how, in the early history of this State, land was alienated on the Darling Downs in very large area1; and, in order to get that land to settle people on, the Government had to repurchase those estates and cut them up, with the result that where tw·cnty-fivo or thirty years ago you would sec nothing but sheep and a habitation here <.nd there, you will now 5ee smiling homesteads all over the Downs. Xearly every hon. member who has spoken­and especially the Hon. Mr. Curtis and the Hon. J\Ir. Leahy-has deplored the fact that the policv of this Government was to change the system of land t~nure. They said that no one wanted land on the perpetual lf ctse system. X ow, how do they know that? They must be like the three tailors of Toolev 'treet. who said, " \V e, the pcovle of Eng­land."

Hon. G. S. CcRTIS: I was not referring to the \V cstem interior.

The SECRETARY FOR MIXES: The same thing will apply to towns. Two or three townships have been opened in the Gr··gory electorat-e, ..:nd I have just received wires showing the result. At the Duchess some time ago. the allotmPnts were opened under the perpetual lease system, and one allotment brought £1,400.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: But the people had no chance of getting the land in any other way.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: I know they had not, but they were willing to pay for it, and the~· are quite satisfied. This afternoon I got a wire with regard to the sale at Mount Cuthbert. There the land was put up under the Miners' Homestead Lease~ Act, which only makes provision for leaseholds. I may •,ay that I received wires and letters asking me not to have the land put up to that form of settlement, as only capitalists would get it. However, I re­solved to carry out the Act, and the land was put up as leaseholds, and one allotment brought £1,000. Under the leasehold sys­tem they pav in the shape of rent one-thir­tieth per annum of the amount realised. That means that the Government will get £33 per annum from that allotment, where­as, under the old l\'l:iners' Homestead Act, they would only have got 5s. per annum. Altogether, forty-fivp allotments were put up at Mount Cuthbert, and the aggregate return was £6,845, or an average of £152 per allotment. That is what occurs under the leasehold system. That system has never had a fair trial hitherto. The reason our party believe in th~ lease?old system is tha~, if a man has a httle bit of money, he Is ,,ble to utilise that monev in putting im­provements on his Iand-in clearing and fencing it, and also in getting some stock without having to get credit. We contend that that is much better than requiring him to put the bulk of his monev into the pur­chase of freehold land. No one knows bet­ter than the Hon. Mr. Leahy that in the \Y estern districts all the land is held under l~asehold. and very short leases at that.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: I was referring to agricultural land.

[Hon. W. Hmm:Zton.

Tho SECRETARY FOR MINES: What has ruined many a man in Queensland is earth-hunger-trying to make land freehold, instead of being satisfied with a leasehold t~nurc I know several who, if t?ey had spent th~ mone} in improving then lease­holds instead of purchasing freeholds, would be we.,lth: to-da'c instead of being. ruined. Although the Land Act of 1910 provided for ]and being acquired on perpetual lease, the late Govcrmrwnt only opened a few allot­ments here and i.here to that form of tenure, in some out-of-the-way place, simply in order to try and make the system unl?opular. \Ve are onl:· just startl'!g to g1vc the ,ystem a f ,ir trial, and, 111 the two first pl·,ccs where the experiment has been tned, I have shown that ver,,- large sums havr been realised.

Hon. P. J. LEAHY: But that is mining land-not agricultural land.

The SECR::O~TARY FOR MINES: These arP township allotments.

Hon. P. ,}. LEAHY: I spoke of agricul­tural land.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES:_ We ~re going to give it. a trial in conn_ect101_1 With agricultural land, too. We beheve ·m the svstem · we have received a mandate from the co:mtr;- !o put it in op~ration, and we have a right to do so. I beheve that, when the neople come to find the benefit of the s·,-ste~, it will be far more pop':'!ar than the freehold svstem has been. It IS no use saying that a man will have no title t? ~he land. If a man should live _to be a m:llwn wars old, his title will be Just a~ v!Lhd at the end of his life as at the begmmng, so long as he pa0 s his annual rent.

Hon. G. S. GcRTIS: Subject to reappraise­ment every ten years.

The SECRETARY FOR MI~ES: \Ye know very well that men have made for­tunes out of speculation in land. There are allotments in BrisbfJne that have never had a building on them. and we know the tre­mendous clifferencG between what they were purchased for in the early days and what thev bring now. And what have the owners done to bring about that increased value? It is by the expenditure of public money, by the community increasing, by settlement taking place, by the city growing, that value is added to the land; and why should not the people who create that value get the increased value ttnd not the gentl':'man who sits down and "a its till that value IS creat_ed, and then comes in and reaps the benefit with­out taking any ·Jteps to bring that value about? Then hon. gentle~':'n too~< ~xcep­tion to the Government g!Ymg pnonty to people who will take ';'P .land u_nrler t~at form of tenure. I say It IS the !''ght thi!lg to do. If land is open and you give f?I'IOI'!ty to that form of ~election, then they Will take it up. We are going to give _the perpetu!'l lease svstem a fair show while we are m office. 'The Hon. Mr. Curtis, when speaking, <aid he did not believe in the _Gove_rnm~nt nolicv of State lmterprise; he pms h1s faith to private enterpric;e every time. The late Government thought that as well as manY more. and \\here an· they to-day? Can. you point out a greater instance where. pr1 va!c enterprise has failed than its fa1lur~ m England during the prese_nt w":r? Pnvate enterpric" has beGn on Its tnal. It has failed and th0 Government haYe had to take ~ver the rail ways, to take over the

Address in Reply, (4 AUGUST.] Adjournment. 337

factories, the wharves, and the shipping in many instances, and Li1ey are controlling the hotels. They have had to step in everywhere.

Hon. T. M. HALL: Merely temporarily.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: It shows that in this great national crisis in England private enterprise has failed, and we believe in State enterprise every time where it is possible. That is why we be­lieve in the nationalisation of the liquor traffic, because we can control it. \V e do not want octopuses like they ha.ve in America, such as the Standard oil trust, to crop up in Australia. Since I have been in the Jl.1ines Department-since I have taken steps to test for oil in che Roma district to make it a State enterprise-! ha1·e had people practically threat"n me; but I will go ahead with it notwithstanding all the threats that have been made. I think an industry of that nature should be a State enterprise. Look what it will mean to Queens!Gnd if we can prove, by the expenditure of a. few thousands of pounds, that there is mineral oil there ! It will mean a hoard of wealth to this State.

An HONOURABLE "lYlE:"dBER: And reduced taxation.

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: If we can subsidise people to the extent of half the expenditure to prove if it is there or not, we can find t~e :whole of the money; and, if we find the 01! Is there, the State will have the benefit of it ; and, if it is not there we cannot help it. '

?-on. G. S. quRTld : Don't you believe in pnvate enterpnse?

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: It is the policy of our party that all public utilities should be controlled either by the municipality or by the State.

Hon. G. S. CuRTIS: There should be no pJ;ivate enterprise?

The SECRETARY FOR MINES: In all public utilities-take 'vater, take gas take the tramways-it is far better for th'em to be under State con"rol. I have not been in the older countries of the world, but I have read of what has been done there; and wherev.er the policy has been tried-in Eng­land, m Scotland, and on the Continent where electric lighting and the tramway~ have bee!' t'l.ken over or constructed by the municipalities, it has been a great success. Yet the hon. gentleman >ays he does not believe in State enterprise. I say it is the policy ~f this Government to go in for State enterprise. As I want to finish this debate to-night, and we ,[)all have t<J put through the first reading of a Bill, I will not detain hon. members any longer. The Hon. Mr. ~owles also spoke about the financial posi­tion. I '<m sure the Treasurer is quite aware of all the difficulties that are ahead of him. In times like this we ~'tnnot foreshadow far ahead, but things ]._,ok blacl<"r t<J-day than they did a mouth ago. They look blacker to-day than they di-1 when this Government took office, but t} 8re is a silver lining to every cloud, and ICJt us hCJpe that there is a silver lining t<J this cloud, and that it will p~ss away. In times like these everyone will have t'? be prepared to do his part, and the pohcy of t.he Government is that. if we have to go in for further taxation, we will try and put it on the shoulder" of those who are best able to bear it. I do not believe in going in for retrenchment in salaries, and that kind of thing, while there

1915--Y

are further sources to be taxed. I think it is unstatesmanlike to try and make ends meet by cutting uown the wages. of workers and public servants. I say, while we have further sources of taxation, it is our duty to tap them, and we will tap them before resorting to retrenchment such as was spoken of by Mr. Fowles as having been foreshadowed in the other States. We had a sample of it a lew years ago, when there was no necessity for it, because then, as now, there were sources of taxation which could have been tapped but which were never tapped. Before we resort to any­thing of that sort, we will tap some of the sources of taxation that still exist. I thank hon. members very much for the way in which they have recolved the Address in Reply. 'l'he comments on it have been favourable, and I thank hon. members for their promises to support the legislation that comes before the Council. I do not expect hon. members to swallow everything. I do not ask them to abrcgate any of their privi­leges ; but this is a progressive programme, and I think the people who sent us here are quite satisfied it is a progressive programme, otherwise we would not have been in the position we occupy to-day.

Question-That the Address in Reply be agreed to-put and 1Jassed.

PRESENTATION OF ADDRESS IN REPLY.

'I'he SECRETARY FOR MINES: I beg to move-

" That the Address, as agreed to, be presented to his Excellency the Go­vernor by the President, the mover and seconder, and such other members as may be present at such time and place as His Excellency may appoint."

Question put and passed.

ENEMY CONTR\CTS AN::"JULMENT BILL.

FIRST READING. On the motion of the SECRETARY FOR

::YfiNES, this Bill, received by message from the Assembly, was read a first time.

The second reading was made an Order of the Day for the next sitting of the Council.

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT. The SECRETARY FOR MINES: I pro­

mised last night that, if we finished the Address in Reply to-day, we would adjourn, possibly for a. fortnight or three weeks. Members of the Assembly next week are going into the country on a recruiting tour, and I am sure they will be only too pleased to have the assistance of a.ny member of this Council who would care to assist. I am sure, if the Hon. Mr. Fahey will only go out and de­liver as patriotic an address on any platform in the countrv as he delivered on the floor of this House to-day, that he will be doing service to the country. I beg to move that. the Council, at its rising, do adjourn until Tuesday, 24th August.

Question put and passed.

ADJOfTRNMENT. The SECRETARY FOR MINES: I beg

to move that the Council do now adjourn. Question put and passed. The Council adjn•1rned at four minutes to

6 o'clock.

Han. W. Hamilton.]