"CASE STUDY“ - MINI "CASE STUDY“ - MINI MODEL MODEL FOR VCT SUPERVISIONFOR VCT SUPERVISION

Mr sci med prim dr MILA PAUNIĆCenter for HIV and STIs Prevention

Institute for Students Health of Belgrade University SERBIA

““STUDIJA SLUČAJA“STUDIJA SLUČAJA“ –– MINI MINI MODEL ZA DPST MODEL ZA DPST SUPERVIZIJUSUPERVIZIJU

It is difficult to follow our own behaviour, notice It is difficult to follow our own behaviour, notice our own mistakes and prevent ourselves from our own mistakes and prevent ourselves from burnout burnout

Teško je pratiti sopstveni rad/ponašanje, uvideti Teško je pratiti sopstveni rad/ponašanje, uvideti sopstvene greške i prevenirati sopstveno izgaranjesopstvene greške i prevenirati sopstveno izgaranje

SuperviSupervision = caring for counsellorssion = caring for counsellorsSupervizija = briga za savetnikeSupervizija = briga za savetnike

EXCHANGE of ideas and experiences with EXCHANGE of ideas and experiences with ““own own equalsequals”” – – a precious treasure a precious treasure = inducing potential= inducing potential for personal changes,for personal changes, learning and building uponlearning and building uponRazmena ideja i iskustva sa “jednakima”=neprocenjivo blago Razmena ideja i iskustva sa “jednakima”=neprocenjivo blago – indukuje promene, učenje i izgradnju– indukuje promene, učenje i izgradnju

The most important The most important instrument instrument in learning is in learning is constructive BENEVOLENTconstructive BENEVOLENT “ “criticismcriticism”” of colleaguesof colleaguesNajvažniji instrument učenja je konstruktivna Najvažniji instrument učenja je konstruktivna DOBROMAMERNA “kritika” kolegaDOBROMAMERNA “kritika” kolega

Supervision = SELF CARESupervision = SELF CARESupervizija = briga za sebeSupervizija = briga za sebe

Learning and correction through workLearning and correction through workUčenje i korigovanje kroz radUčenje i korigovanje kroz rad

Careful listening to others’ experiencesCareful listening to others’ experiences

Pažljivo osluškivanje iskustva drugihPažljivo osluškivanje iskustva drugih Observing other colleagues’ workObserving other colleagues’ workPosmatranje rada drugih kolegaPosmatranje rada drugih kolega

Supervisor’s advice –Supervisor’s advice – inducing our owninducing our own possibilities for personal changepossibilities for personal changeindukovanje mogućnosti za sopstvene promeneindukovanje mogućnosti za sopstvene promene

Case study Case study

Counsellor Mila PaunićCounsellor Mila Paunić

This material contains This material contains confidential information confidential information and this text can only be and this text can only be used for the purpose of used for the purpose of supervisionsupervision

Prikaz „studije slučaja“ Prikaz „studije slučaja“

Savetnica Mila PaunićSavetnica Mila Paunić

U ovom materijalu se U ovom materijalu se nalaze poverljive nalaze poverljive informacije i tekst se može informacije i tekst se može koristiti samo u svrhu koristiti samo u svrhu supervizijesupervizije

On the 17On the 17thth of March .... Mara of March .... Mara and I worked in the Centre. and I worked in the Centre. Somehow, there were lots of Somehow, there were lots of clients since the early clients since the early morning so both of us did morning so both of us did counselling at the same time counselling at the same time (usually, if there were no (usually, if there were no much crowd one counsellor much crowd one counsellor would sit in the reception would sit in the reception room and the other in the room and the other in the counselling room).counselling room).

I was just seeing off my client I was just seeing off my client and I did not see when Mara and I did not see when Mara did greeted the two clients did greeted the two clients who were sitting in the who were sitting in the reception room together and reception room together and referred one of them (Stefan) referred one of them (Stefan) to me, and the other one to me, and the other one (Boban) in another room (Boban) in another room where Mara workedwhere Mara worked

17. marta ….. u Centru smo 17. marta ….. u Centru smo radile Mara i ja. radile Mara i ja.

Nekako se desilo da je od ranog Nekako se desilo da je od ranog jutra bilo dosta klijenata; pa smo jutra bilo dosta klijenata; pa smo obe radile savetovanja obe radile savetovanja istovremeno istovremeno (obično, ako nema (obično, ako nema veće gužve jedna sedi u veće gužve jedna sedi u prijemnoj sobi a druga radi u prijemnoj sobi a druga radi u sobi za savetovanje).sobi za savetovanje).

Upravo sam ispraćala klijenta i Upravo sam ispraćala klijenta i nisam ni videla kada je Mara nisam ni videla kada je Mara obavila trijažu dva klijenta koja obavila trijažu dva klijenta koja su sedela u prijemnoj sobi su sedela u prijemnoj sobi zajedno, tako što je jednog zajedno, tako što je jednog (Stefana) uputila kod mene, a (Stefana) uputila kod mene, a drugog (Bobana) u drugu sobu, drugog (Bobana) u drugu sobu, tamo gde je Mara radila. tamo gde je Mara radila.

Stefan is a tall and striking young Stefan is a tall and striking young man; he has prominent eyebrows man; he has prominent eyebrows and short »messy« beard. By his and short »messy« beard. By his sincerity and ease in conversation sincerity and ease in conversation he quickly wins inclination of the he quickly wins inclination of the people he talks with. He held in his people he talks with. He held in his hands daily newspaper „Blic“ and hands daily newspaper „Blic“ and very wittily, without much very wittily, without much „emotional involvement“, „emotional involvement“, commented the front page. commented the front page.

Stefan is 27, several months ago Stefan is 27, several months ago he finished his studies at the he finished his studies at the Faculty of architecture, he works in Faculty of architecture, he works in a well known company. Although a well known company. Although he is very young he has he is very young he has possibilities to express his possibilities to express his creativity, his colleagues respect creativity, his colleagues respect him, he “imposed the work pace him, he “imposed the work pace from morning till late evening” on from morning till late evening” on himself but he enjoys his work, has himself but he enjoys his work, has excellent salary and he is very excellent salary and he is very satisfied.satisfied.

Stefan je visok i markantan Stefan je visok i markantan mladić, ima naglašene obrve i mladić, ima naglašene obrve i »neurednu« kratku bradicu. »neurednu« kratku bradicu. Svojom iskrenošću i neusiljenom Svojom iskrenošću i neusiljenom konverzacijom brzo „osvaja“ konverzacijom brzo „osvaja“ simpatije kod svojih sagovornika. simpatije kod svojih sagovornika. Držao je u rukama dnevne Držao je u rukama dnevne novine „Blic“ i vrlo simpatično, novine „Blic“ i vrlo simpatično, bez mnogo „emocionalnog bez mnogo „emocionalnog uplitanja“, duhovito uplitanja“, duhovito komentarisao naslovnu stranu. komentarisao naslovnu stranu.

Stefan ima 27 godina, završio je Stefan ima 27 godina, završio je pre nekoliko meseci arhitekturu, pre nekoliko meseci arhitekturu, radi u jednoj poznatoj firmi, u radi u jednoj poznatoj firmi, u svojoj struci; iako je veoma mlad svojoj struci; iako je veoma mlad ima mogućnosti da iskaže svoju ima mogućnosti da iskaže svoju kreativnost, kolege ga uvažavaju kreativnost, kolege ga uvažavaju i cene, sam je sebi „natovario i cene, sam je sebi „natovario tempo rada „od ujutru do tempo rada „od ujutru do uveče“, ali uziva u poslu, ima uveče“, ali uziva u poslu, ima odlična primanja i izuzetno je odlična primanja i izuzetno je zadovoljan.zadovoljan.

He came to the counselling and He came to the counselling and testing after long testing after long conversations with his male conversations with his male partner who insisted that they partner who insisted that they both should come and do the both should come and do the test. test.

Stefan believes that he did not Stefan believes that he did not have „so many“ risks, and he have „so many“ risks, and he explained this by saying: „I explained this by saying: „I had only a few partners – 4 or had only a few partners – 4 or actually 5. I get completely actually 5. I get completely attached to my partners, attached to my partners, when I love somebody I am when I love somebody I am with him for a long time and it with him for a long time and it is difficult for me to break up. is difficult for me to break up. That is why I think I shouldn`t That is why I think I shouldn`t worry too much. You yourself worry too much. You yourself know that it is common for know that it is common for gay population to change lots gay population to change lots of partners, even for one of partners, even for one evening and let alone for 6 or evening and let alone for 6 or 7 years.“ 7 years.“

Na savetovanje i testiranje je Na savetovanje i testiranje je došao nakon dugih razgovora došao nakon dugih razgovora sa svojim partnerom, koji je sa svojim partnerom, koji je insistirao da dodju i urade test insistirao da dodju i urade test obojica. obojica.

Stefan smatra da nije imao Stefan smatra da nije imao „tako puno“ rizika a to je „tako puno“ rizika a to je objasnio: „ imao sam samo objasnio: „ imao sam samo nekoliko partnera – 4 odnosno nekoliko partnera – 4 odnosno pet. Ja se u potpunosti pet. Ja se u potpunosti vezujem za svoje partnere, vezujem za svoje partnere, kad nekoga volim onda sam s kad nekoga volim onda sam s njim dugo i tesko se rastajem. njim dugo i tesko se rastajem. Zato i mislim da nemam Zato i mislim da nemam razloga mnogo da brinem, Vi razloga mnogo da brinem, Vi znate i sami da za gej znate i sami da za gej populaciju važi da promeni populaciju važi da promeni puno partnera, cak i za jedno puno partnera, cak i za jedno vece a kamoli za 6 ili 7 vece a kamoli za 6 ili 7 godina.“ godina.“

When I asked him about the When I asked him about the type of intercourse he had type of intercourse he had with his partner and whether with his partner and whether they used condom or not, he they used condom or not, he replied vaguely – Well, replied vaguely – Well, mostly anal, but also oral, mostly anal, but also oral, and the condom sometimes and the condom sometimes yes, sometimes no. More yes, sometimes no. More frequently we used the frequently we used the condom. Then he insisted condom. Then he insisted that he did not have only that he did not have only anal intercourses with men, anal intercourses with men, that he had a girlfriend 5 that he had a girlfriend 5 years ago, with whom he was years ago, with whom he was for a rather long time, but for a rather long time, but they had only 2 intercourses they had only 2 intercourses and they did not use a and they did not use a condom. (she did not want condom. (she did not want to use a condom).to use a condom).

Kada sam pitala o vrsti Kada sam pitala o vrsti odnosa koje je imao sa svojim odnosa koje je imao sa svojim partnerima i da li su bili sa ili partnerima i da li su bili sa ili bez kondoma, neodredjeno je bez kondoma, neodredjeno je odgovorio – Pa, uglavnom odgovorio – Pa, uglavnom analne, ali i oralne, a kondom analne, ali i oralne, a kondom - I tako – i tako. Više ih je bilo - I tako – i tako. Više ih je bilo sa kondomom. Zatim je sa kondomom. Zatim je insistirao na tome da nije insistirao na tome da nije imao samo analne odnose sa imao samo analne odnose sa muškarcima, da je imao i muškarcima, da je imao i jednu devojku pre 5 godina, jednu devojku pre 5 godina, sa kojom je bio dosta dugo; ali sa kojom je bio dosta dugo; ali su imali samo dva odnosa i su imali samo dva odnosa i nisu koristili kondom, (zapravo nisu koristili kondom, (zapravo ona nije želela da koriste ona nije želela da koriste kondom).kondom).

When I asked him about the When I asked him about the type of intercourse he had type of intercourse he had with his partner and whether with his partner and whether they used condom or not, he they used condom or not, he replied vaguely – Well, replied vaguely – Well, mostly anal, but also oral, mostly anal, but also oral, and the condom sometimes and the condom sometimes yes, sometimes no. More yes, sometimes no. More frequently we used the frequently we used the condom. Then he insisted condom. Then he insisted that he did not have only that he did not have only anal intercourses with men, anal intercourses with men, that he had a girlfriend 5 that he had a girlfriend 5 years ago, with whom he was years ago, with whom he was for a rather long time, but for a rather long time, but they had only 2 intercourses they had only 2 intercourses and they did not use a and they did not use a condom. (she did not want condom. (she did not want to use a condom).to use a condom).

Kada sam pitala o vrsti Kada sam pitala o vrsti odnosa koje je imao sa svojim odnosa koje je imao sa svojim partnerima i da li su bili sa ili partnerima i da li su bili sa ili bez kondoma, neodredjeno je bez kondoma, neodredjeno je odgovorio – Pa, uglavnom odgovorio – Pa, uglavnom analne, ali i oralne, a kondom analne, ali i oralne, a kondom - I tako – i tako. Više ih je bilo - I tako – i tako. Više ih je bilo sa kondomom. Zatim je sa kondomom. Zatim je insistirao na tome da nije insistirao na tome da nije imao samo analne odnose sa imao samo analne odnose sa muškarcima, da je imao i muškarcima, da je imao i jednu devojku pre 5 godina, jednu devojku pre 5 godina, sa kojom je bio dosta dugo; ali sa kojom je bio dosta dugo; ali su imali samo dva odnosa i su imali samo dva odnosa i nisu koristili kondom, (zapravo nisu koristili kondom, (zapravo ona nije želela da koriste ona nije želela da koriste kondom).kondom).

Stefan believes that it was all Stefan believes that it was all because Boban is too tired – because Boban is too tired – Boban also works a lot. Boban also works a lot. However, he “agreed” that However, he “agreed” that they both do the HIV test they both do the HIV test because they talked a lot because they talked a lot about it too, and Boban`s about it too, and Boban`s friend “preached” a lot they friend “preached” a lot they Boban should do this test as Boban should do this test as well.well.

I asked about other risks; he I asked about other risks; he negated any other risk, but negated any other risk, but he persistently minimised he persistently minimised risks with his partners risks with his partners because those were „long because those were „long and safe relationships“.and safe relationships“.

  

Stefan and Boban finished the Stefan and Boban finished the counselling sessions almost counselling sessions almost at the same time and went at the same time and went together to the lab. together to the lab.

Stefan je ubedjen da je sve to Stefan je ubedjen da je sve to samo premor – i Boban jako samo premor – i Boban jako mnogo radi, ali „pristao“ je da mnogo radi, ali „pristao“ je da obojica urade i test na HIV jer obojica urade i test na HIV jer su i o tome dosta pričali, a su i o tome dosta pričali, a Bobanu je ta kuma ionako Bobanu je ta kuma ionako „napunila glavu“ da treba i to „napunila glavu“ da treba i to da uradi.da uradi.

Pitala sam o drugim rizicima; Pitala sam o drugim rizicima; negirao je bilo koji drugi rizik, negirao je bilo koji drugi rizik, ali je uporno na neki način ali je uporno na neki način minimizirao rizike sa svojim minimizirao rizike sa svojim partnerima jer su to bile partnerima jer su to bile „duge i sigurne veze“.„duge i sigurne veze“.

  

Stefan i Boban su skoro Stefan i Boban su skoro istovremeno završili istovremeno završili savetovanja i zajedno otišli u savetovanja i zajedno otišli u laboratoriju.laboratoriju.

HIV test results were HIV test results were ready on the same ready on the same day in the afternoon day in the afternoon and they were and they were positive for both of positive for both of them. them.

Rezultati HIV testova Rezultati HIV testova su bili gotovi istog su bili gotovi istog dana popodne i kod dana popodne i kod obojice su bili obojice su bili pozitivni.pozitivni.

Since the work process in our Centre Since the work process in our Centre changed and since there are changed and since there are considerably less counsellors that considerably less counsellors that the objective needs, Mara`s the objective needs, Mara`s working time finished at 15h working time finished at 15h (although she stayed almost until (although she stayed almost until 16h hoping that her client would 16h hoping that her client would come); and I worked until 17h.come); and I worked until 17h.

Boban and Stefan came to the post-Boban and Stefan came to the post-test counselling together at test counselling together at 16.20h.16.20h.

I asked them to sit down and a told I asked them to sit down and a told them that I would issue the them that I would issue the results separately in the results separately in the counselling room. They both counselling room. They both remained standing and asked me remained standing and asked me to do the post test counselling to do the post test counselling together, because Boban said „I together, because Boban said „I am scared that one of use might am scared that one of use might be positive, and we will tell this be positive, and we will tell this to each other for sure“. Stefan to each other for sure“. Stefan repeated the same and asked me repeated the same and asked me to hear the results together. to hear the results together.

Kako se proces rada u našem Kako se proces rada u našem Centru promenio i kako je trenutno Centru promenio i kako je trenutno mnogo manje savetnika od mnogo manje savetnika od „objektivnih potreba“, Mari je bilo „objektivnih potreba“, Mari je bilo završeno radno vreme u 15h završeno radno vreme u 15h (mada je Mara ostala skoro do 16h (mada je Mara ostala skoro do 16h u nadi da će njen klijent doći); a ja u nadi da će njen klijent doći); a ja sam radila do 17h.sam radila do 17h.

Boban i Stefan su na post test Boban i Stefan su na post test savetovanje došli zajedno u savetovanje došli zajedno u 16,20h.16,20h.

Zamolila sam ih da sednu, a da ću Zamolila sam ih da sednu, a da ću rezultate da im dam pojedinačno u rezultate da im dam pojedinačno u sobi za savetovanje. Obojica su sobi za savetovanje. Obojica su ostala da stoje i zamolila me da ostala da stoje i zamolila me da zajedno udju na post test zajedno udju na post test savetovanje, jer, Boban je savetovanje, jer, Boban je izgovorio, „plašim se da je jedan izgovorio, „plašim se da je jedan od nas dvojice pozitivan, a mi od nas dvojice pozitivan, a mi ćemo to sigurno jedan drugom ćemo to sigurno jedan drugom reći“. Stefan je ponovio isto i reći“. Stefan je ponovio isto i zamolio da zajedno čuju rezultate. zamolio da zajedno čuju rezultate.

When he said „Please don`t When he said „Please don`t separate us, we want to be separate us, we want to be together, I did not hesitate together, I did not hesitate any longer, I took all the any longer, I took all the papers (the results) (3 test of papers (the results) (3 test of different producers were different producers were done for each blood sample) done for each blood sample) and the three of us finally sat and the three of us finally sat down. In simple words I told down. In simple words I told them that in both of their them that in both of their blood samples antibodies for blood samples antibodies for HIV were found, which meant HIV were found, which meant that, most probably they are that, most probably they are HIV positive. HIV positive.

Kada je izgovorio „Molim vas Kada je izgovorio „Molim vas nemojte nas razdvajati, želimo nemojte nas razdvajati, želimo da budemo zajedno; nisam da budemo zajedno; nisam više oklevala, uzela sam sve više oklevala, uzela sam sve papire (razultate) (bila su papire (razultate) (bila su uradjena po 3 testa različitih uradjena po 3 testa različitih proizvodjaca za obojicu) i svo proizvodjaca za obojicu) i svo troje smo konačno seli. troje smo konačno seli. Jednostavnim rečima sam Jednostavnim rečima sam rekla da su i kod jednog i kod rekla da su i kod jednog i kod drugog nadjena antitela na drugog nadjena antitela na HIV, što znači da su, HIV, što znači da su, najverovatnije, HIV pozitivni. najverovatnije, HIV pozitivni.

Stefan took Boban`s hand and Stefan took Boban`s hand and Boban suddenly moved away. I Boban suddenly moved away. I was convinced that he was was convinced that he was uncomfortable because of me, uncomfortable because of me, that they did not want them to that they did not want them to hold hands before me. We slowly hold hands before me. We slowly explained the meaning of the explained the meaning of the results and the following steps. results and the following steps. Once again Stefan took Boban`s Once again Stefan took Boban`s hand and he moved it away again hand and he moved it away again after a few seconds. I realised that after a few seconds. I realised that it would be good if I went out at it would be good if I went out at least for a few minutes and give least for a few minutes and give them time for some tenderness, them time for some tenderness, because in these moments they because in these moments they need to be alone for a short time. I need to be alone for a short time. I said that I was going to the toilet. said that I was going to the toilet. After a few minutes I entered the After a few minutes I entered the room again. Stefan held Boban`s room again. Stefan held Boban`s hand with both of his and looked hand with both of his and looked at him. Boban stared at the wall in at him. Boban stared at the wall in front of him. front of him.

Stefan je uhvatio Bobana za Stefan je uhvatio Bobana za ruku, a Boban je naglo ruku, a Boban je naglo pomerio, izmakao. Bila sam pomerio, izmakao. Bila sam ubedjena da mu je neprijatno ubedjena da mu je neprijatno zbog mene i da nije zapravo zbog mene i da nije zapravo želeo da se drže za ruke želeo da se drže za ruke predamnom. Polako smo predamnom. Polako smo razjasnili značenje rezultata, razjasnili značenje rezultata, sledeće korake; još jednom je sledeće korake; još jednom je Stefan uhvatio Bobana za ruku, Stefan uhvatio Bobana za ruku, a on je posle par sekundi opet a on je posle par sekundi opet izmakao. Shvatila sam da je izmakao. Shvatila sam da je dobro da makar na kratko dobro da makar na kratko izadjem i da im dam vremena izadjem i da im dam vremena za neku nežnost, jer je u za neku nežnost, jer je u ovakvim trenucima potrebno ovakvim trenucima potrebno da ostanu malo sami. Rekla da ostanu malo sami. Rekla sam da idem do toaleta. Posle sam da idem do toaleta. Posle par minuta sam ponovo ušla, par minuta sam ponovo ušla, Stefan je držao Bobanovu ruku Stefan je držao Bobanovu ruku sa obe ruke i gledao u njega. sa obe ruke i gledao u njega. Boban je gledao u zid ispred Boban je gledao u zid ispred sebe.sebe.

We talked for a long time. They We talked for a long time. They were both involved, I would say were both involved, I would say equally. We talked mostly about equally. We talked mostly about the tests, about the following the tests, about the following steps, therapy, what to do next steps, therapy, what to do next and how to behave at work… and how to behave at work… What would further diagnostics What would further diagnostics looks like. To whom they should looks like. To whom they should tell, and whether they should tell tell, and whether they should tell anybody. We scheduled a check anybody. We scheduled a check up at the Clinic for Infectious up at the Clinic for Infectious diseases. We agreed to stay in diseases. We agreed to stay in touch and to speak on the phone touch and to speak on the phone the following day. I gave them the following day. I gave them the phone number of the Centre the phone number of the Centre and the working times of Mara and the working times of Mara and me. They gave me their and me. They gave me their mobile phone numbers. mobile phone numbers.

Dugo smo pričali. Obojica su Dugo smo pričali. Obojica su bila uključena, rekla bih bila uključena, rekla bih podjednako. Pričali smo o podjednako. Pričali smo o uglavnom o samim testovima, uglavnom o samim testovima, o predstojećim koracima, o predstojećim koracima, terapiji, šta dalje, kako na terapiji, šta dalje, kako na poslu, .... Kako će teći poslu, .... Kako će teći dijagnostika dalje. Kome i da li dijagnostika dalje. Kome i da li ikome reći.... Zakazali smo ikome reći.... Zakazali smo pregled na Infektivnoj klinici. pregled na Infektivnoj klinici. Dogovorili smo se da Dogovorili smo se da ostanemo na vezi, da se ostanemo na vezi, da se odmah sutradan cujemo; dala odmah sutradan cujemo; dala sam im telefon Centra i moj i sam im telefon Centra i moj i Marin raspored rada; oni su mi Marin raspored rada; oni su mi dali brojeve svojih mobilnih dali brojeve svojih mobilnih telefona.telefona.

I had an impression that, in general, I had an impression that, in general, everything went quite right, that everything went quite right, that the patients were completely the patients were completely reasonable, mature, responsible. reasonable, mature, responsible. However, I also felt some However, I also felt some apprehension that there was apprehension that there was something that is not totally OK something that is not totally OK and I did not know what it was.and I did not know what it was.

  

The following day Stefan called me The following day Stefan called me and said that they went to dr and said that they went to dr Jevtović and gave blood samples Jevtović and gave blood samples for analyses for Western Blot. for analyses for Western Blot. Further diagnostics would have to Further diagnostics would have to be done in VMA hospital (PCR and be done in VMA hospital (PCR and CD4) because the Clinic for CD4) because the Clinic for Infectious diseases did not have Infectious diseases did not have reagents for these analyses. It reagents for these analyses. It made things a bit complicated made things a bit complicated because they had to go to their because they had to go to their primary health care centre to get primary health care centre to get the referral for VMA.the referral for VMA.

Imala sam utisak da je Imala sam utisak da je generalno, sve prošlo dosta generalno, sve prošlo dosta dobro, da su pacijenti potpuno dobro, da su pacijenti potpuno razumni, zreli, odgovorni. razumni, zreli, odgovorni. Medjutim, imala sam i neku Medjutim, imala sam i neku «zebnju»; nesto što ipak tu «zebnju»; nesto što ipak tu nije sasvim «ok» a nisam nije sasvim «ok» a nisam znala šta je «to».znala šta je «to».

  

Sutradan me je Stefan zvao i Sutradan me je Stefan zvao i rekao da su bili kod dr rekao da su bili kod dr Jevtovića i da su dali krv na Jevtovića i da su dali krv na Western Blot. Dalju Western Blot. Dalju dijagnostiku će morati da dijagnostiku će morati da urade na VMA (PCR i CD4) jer urade na VMA (PCR i CD4) jer Infektivna klinika nema Infektivna klinika nema trenutno reagenasa za ove trenutno reagenasa za ove nalize. To malo komplikuje jer nalize. To malo komplikuje jer moraju da idu u svoj dom moraju da idu u svoj dom zdravlja po upute za VMA.zdravlja po upute za VMA.

We spoke again on the phone around We spoke again on the phone around noon on Wednesday (Stefan called noon on Wednesday (Stefan called again) to complain that they did not again) to complain that they did not do anything in VMA because they do do anything in VMA because they do these analysis only on Wednesday these analysis only on Wednesday morning at 7h and they arrived there morning at 7h and they arrived there only at 11h. They could do the test only at 11h. They could do the test next Wednesday. The result of the next Wednesday. The result of the WB was not ready yet, it should be WB was not ready yet, it should be ready on Thursday. ready on Thursday.

After a few hours (around 14.30h) After a few hours (around 14.30h) Stefan again called me and told me Stefan again called me and told me that they met dr Jevtović and that he that they met dr Jevtović and that he told them (literally in the street) that told them (literally in the street) that the WB arrived and that it was the WB arrived and that it was positive. I asked Stefan whether they positive. I asked Stefan whether they wanted to come to the Centre, and wanted to come to the Centre, and told them that Mara and I would wait told them that Mara and I would wait for them. I said that they should not for them. I said that they should not hesitate to come if they feel the hesitate to come if they feel the need to talk to someone. Stefan said need to talk to someone. Stefan said that he and Boban just parted and that he and Boban just parted and they were both going to their homes. they were both going to their homes.

Ponovo smo se čuli u sredu Ponovo smo se čuli u sredu oko podneva (opet je Stefan oko podneva (opet je Stefan zvao) da se požali da ništa zvao) da se požali da ništa nisu uradili na VMA jer oni rade nisu uradili na VMA jer oni rade samo rano ujutru sredom te samo rano ujutru sredom te analize, a oni su bili oko 11h. analize, a oni su bili oko 11h. Tek mogu da ih urade sledece Tek mogu da ih urade sledece srede. Rezultat WB jos nije srede. Rezultat WB jos nije gotov, trebalo bi da bude u gotov, trebalo bi da bude u cetvrtak.cetvrtak.

Posle par sati (oko 14,30h) me Posle par sati (oko 14,30h) me je ponovo nazvao Stefan i je ponovo nazvao Stefan i rekao da su sreli dr Jevtovića i rekao da su sreli dr Jevtovića i da im je rekao da je WB stigao da im je rekao da je WB stigao i da je pozitivan. Pitala sam i da je pozitivan. Pitala sam Stefana da li žele da dodju u Stefana da li žele da dodju u Centar, da ćemo ih Mara i ja Centar, da ćemo ih Mara i ja čekati; da slobodno dodju ako čekati; da slobodno dodju ako imaju potrebu da pričaju s imaju potrebu da pričaju s nekim. Stefan je rekao da su nekim. Stefan je rekao da su se upravo on i Boban razdvojili se upravo on i Boban razdvojili i da je svako krenuo svojoj i da je svako krenuo svojoj kući. kući.

I again told him when Mara and I I again told him when Mara and I would be in the Centre and that in would be in the Centre and that in two days – on Friday evening - we two days – on Friday evening - we would have night testing and would have night testing and counselling and that they could counselling and that they could both come then.both come then.

Opet sam mu rekla kada smo Opet sam mu rekla kada smo Mara i ja u Centru i da imamo Mara i ja u Centru i da imamo za dva dana - u petak uvece- za dva dana - u petak uvece- noćno testiranje i savetovanje i noćno testiranje i savetovanje i da slobodno i u to vreme mogu da slobodno i u to vreme mogu obojica da dodju.obojica da dodju.

Stefan did not call for two days. Stefan did not call for two days.

On Friday evening around 22.30h he On Friday evening around 22.30h he came alone. He looked tired. I asked came alone. He looked tired. I asked whether Boban would come too, and whether Boban would come too, and he covered his face with his hands he covered his face with his hands and started to cry. He said that and started to cry. He said that Boban did not know that he came to Boban did not know that he came to see me. He started talking through see me. He started talking through tears – “Boban has changed since tears – “Boban has changed since that day. Actually, maybe not just that day. Actually, maybe not just since that day... He has friends, since that day... He has friends, parents... He told everybody that he parents... He told everybody that he was HIV positive; his friend (girl was HIV positive; his friend (girl working in the lab) told him that he working in the lab) told him that he got it from me for sure... He did not got it from me for sure... He did not start accusing me yet, but the start accusing me yet, but the people around him are against me. I people around him are against me. I feel terrible. I did not tell anything to feel terrible. I did not tell anything to anyone, it`s hard, and Boban does anyone, it`s hard, and Boban does not want us to see each other, he not want us to see each other, he wants to somehow to put his wants to somehow to put his thoughts together. thoughts together.

Stefan se nije javljao dva dana. Stefan se nije javljao dva dana.

U petak uveče, oko 22,30h je U petak uveče, oko 22,30h je došao sam. Delovao je umorno. došao sam. Delovao je umorno. Pitala sam da li će i Boban Pitala sam da li će i Boban doći, a on je pokrio lice rukama doći, a on je pokrio lice rukama i počeo da plače. Rekao je da i počeo da plače. Rekao je da Boban ne zna da je on kod Boban ne zna da je on kod mene. Počeo je da priča kroz mene. Počeo je da priča kroz suze – Boban se od onog dana suze – Boban se od onog dana promenio. U stvari možda i ne promenio. U stvari možda i ne samo od onog dana... On ima samo od onog dana... On ima prijatelje, kumove, roditelje... prijatelje, kumove, roditelje... Svima je rekao da je HIV Svima je rekao da je HIV pozitivan; kuma mu je rekla da pozitivan; kuma mu je rekla da je to sigurno od mene dobio... je to sigurno od mene dobio... On me još ne optužuje, ali On me još ne optužuje, ali njegova okolina je protiv mene. njegova okolina je protiv mene. Ja se osećam užasno. Nikome Ja se osećam užasno. Nikome nisam rekao ništa, teško mi je, nisam rekao ništa, teško mi je, a Boban ne želi da se vidjamo, a Boban ne želi da se vidjamo, želi da se sredi nekako i da se želi da se sredi nekako i da se «presabere». «presabere».

I don`t know; maybe everything is I don`t know; maybe everything is true...maybe I infected him. I had true...maybe I infected him. I had a kind of flu in the end of August, a kind of flu in the end of August, maybe then... And Boban and I maybe then... And Boban and I had a break-up that lasted for had a break-up that lasted for about a month – in November. I about a month – in November. I had a few intercourses then, but had a few intercourses then, but he did as well! he did as well!

I cannot be sure that he maybe got I cannot be sure that he maybe got infected then and then infected infected then and then infected me. Who can tell, anyway? me. Who can tell, anyway?

Then we talked about the need for Then we talked about the need for two of them to have protected two of them to have protected sex from that time on (and sex from that time on (and accompanying explanation...)accompanying explanation...)

Ne znam; možda je sve baš Ne znam; možda je sve baš tako... možda sam ga ja i tako... možda sam ga ja i zarazio. Imao sam letos zarazio. Imao sam letos krajem avgusta i ja nešto kao krajem avgusta i ja nešto kao grip, možda tada... A imali grip, možda tada... A imali smo i Boban i ja jedan smo i Boban i ja jedan prekid... od oko mesec dana – prekid... od oko mesec dana – u novembru. Tada sam imao u novembru. Tada sam imao neke susrete i par odnosa, ali neke susrete i par odnosa, ali imao je i on! imao je i on!

Ne mogu da budem siguran Ne mogu da budem siguran da je možda tada on dobio da je možda tada on dobio HIV pa mene zarazio. Ko to HIV pa mene zarazio. Ko to može uopšte da zna? može uopšte da zna?

Zatim smo pričali o potrebi Zatim smo pričali o potrebi da, na dalje, imaju odnose sa da, na dalje, imaju odnose sa kondomom (i objašnjenja koja kondomom (i objašnjenja koja slede...)slede...)

The telephone rang... Stefan: «I The telephone rang... Stefan: «I apologise, I need to answer».apologise, I need to answer».

I heard the conversation (although I I heard the conversation (although I was not interested, but Stefan was not interested, but Stefan was in the room and I could hear was in the room and I could hear him regardless of my will): «...No, him regardless of my will): «...No, I have just went out to walk I have just went out to walk around the neighbourhood, I’ll be around the neighbourhood, I’ll be home soon... Drop by. It is not home soon... Drop by. It is not too late, just come. I`ll be waiting too late, just come. I`ll be waiting for you.»for you.»

I was sure that it was Boban, so I I was sure that it was Boban, so I asked: «Was that Boban»? asked: «Was that Boban»?

Stefan: «No, a friend.»Stefan: «No, a friend.»

Zvoni telefon... Stefan: Zvoni telefon... Stefan: «Izvinite moram da se javim».«Izvinite moram da se javim».

Čujem razgovor (bez obzira Čujem razgovor (bez obzira što me ne zanima, Stefan je u što me ne zanima, Stefan je u ordinaciji i prosto htela ne ordinaciji i prosto htela ne htela čujem šta govori): htela čujem šta govori): «...Ma ne, malo sam samo «...Ma ne, malo sam samo izašao da se prošetam po izašao da se prošetam po kraju, uskoro dolazim kući... kraju, uskoro dolazim kući... Svrati. Ma nije kasno, Svrati. Ma nije kasno, slobodno svrati. Čekam te.»slobodno svrati. Čekam te.»

Bila sam sigurna da je Boban, Bila sam sigurna da je Boban, pa sam i pitala: «je l to pa sam i pitala: «je l to Boban»? Boban»?

Stefan: «Ma nije; neki Stefan: «Ma nije; neki prijatelj.»prijatelj.»

Boban doesn`t even know that I am Boban doesn`t even know that I am here. We agreed that we will here. We agreed that we will come to see you together next come to see you together next week. Don`t tell him that I was week. Don`t tell him that I was here today. here today.

Then he continued in crying voice: Then he continued in crying voice: “What can I tell you, I am really “What can I tell you, I am really desperate, I feel I’m having guilty desperate, I feel I’m having guilty conscience. I can`t tell anyone – conscience. I can`t tell anyone – neither my mother or my father, I neither my mother or my father, I thought maybe to tell my sister, thought maybe to tell my sister, but she’s still so young, she is in but she’s still so young, she is in high school – second grade (16 high school – second grade (16 years old). She is the only one years old). She is the only one who knows that I am gay. who knows that I am gay.

Boban ne zna da sam ja ovde Boban ne zna da sam ja ovde kod vas. Dogovorili smo se da kod vas. Dogovorili smo se da ćemo sledeće nedelje doći ćemo sledeće nedelje doći kod vas zajedno. Nemojte da kod vas zajedno. Nemojte da mu kažete da sam ja bio ovde mu kažete da sam ja bio ovde danas. danas.

Zatim nastavlja opet plačnim Zatim nastavlja opet plačnim glasom – I šta da vam kažem glasom – I šta da vam kažem - ja sam stvarno očajan, - ja sam stvarno očajan, osećam grižu savesti. Ne osećam grižu savesti. Ne mogu da kažem nikome – ni mogu da kažem nikome – ni majci ni ocu, mislio sam majci ni ocu, mislio sam možda sestri, ali ona je još možda sestri, ali ona je još klinka, ona je u srednjoj školi klinka, ona je u srednjoj školi - drugi razred gimnazije. U - drugi razred gimnazije. U mojoj okolini jedino ona zna mojoj okolini jedino ona zna da sam gej. da sam gej.

I don`t live with them, I live with a I don`t live with them, I live with a roommate who knows that I`m roommate who knows that I`m gay, but we are not in a gay, but we are not in a relationship. Here, (he again relationship. Here, (he again started to cry), I`m afraid that started to cry), I`m afraid that Boban will leave me. He has Boban will leave me. He has friends who turn him against me, friends who turn him against me, and he is not strong enough to and he is not strong enough to make decisions himself... I’m make decisions himself... I’m worried because Boban is totally worried because Boban is totally avoiding me these days...”avoiding me these days...”

His phone rang again. Stefan: «I His phone rang again. Stefan: «I apologise, but I need to answer apologise, but I need to answer again».again».

The conversation resembled the The conversation resembled the first one – and incredible first one – and incredible transformation (Stefan in joyful transformation (Stefan in joyful voice arranges to meet another voice arranges to meet another friend after midnight).friend after midnight).

Više i ne živim s njima, živim Više i ne živim s njima, živim sa jednim cimerom koji zna sa jednim cimerom koji zna da sam gej ali mi nismo u da sam gej ali mi nismo u «šemi». Eto, (opet počinje da «šemi». Eto, (opet počinje da plače) Plašim se da će me plače) Plašim se da će me Boban ostaviti. On ima Boban ostaviti. On ima prijatelje koji ga «huškaju» prijatelje koji ga «huškaju» protiv mene, a on nije protiv mene, a on nije dovoljno jak da sam dovoljno jak da sam odlučuje... Brine me što me odlučuje... Brine me što me Boban totalno izbegava ovih Boban totalno izbegava ovih dana...dana...

Opet zvoni telefon. Stefan: Opet zvoni telefon. Stefan: «Izvinite moram opet da se «Izvinite moram opet da se javim».javim».

Sličan razgovor Sličan razgovor malopređašnjem – i malopređašnjem – i neverovatna transformacija neverovatna transformacija (Stefan veselim glasom (Stefan veselim glasom ugovara da se vidi sa još ugovara da se vidi sa još jednim prijateljem iza ponoći).jednim prijateljem iza ponoći).

I am totally confused. Stefan goes I am totally confused. Stefan goes from one mood straight into from one mood straight into another.... I could see he was another.... I could see he was trying to act that he was in very trying to act that he was in very good mood…. He succeeded good mood…. He succeeded especially that second time.especially that second time.

Everything seemed to me as a Everything seemed to me as a rehearsal for a not very good rehearsal for a not very good movie. movie.

Around 23h Stefan left.Around 23h Stefan left.

  

I stayed with a bunch of dilemmas. I stayed with a bunch of dilemmas.

Ja sam potpuno zbunjena. Ja sam potpuno zbunjena. Stefan iz jednog raspoloženja Stefan iz jednog raspoloženja upada u drugo... Vidim da se upada u drugo... Vidim da se trudi da dobro odglumi veselo trudi da dobro odglumi veselo raspoloženje... Posebno drugi raspoloženje... Posebno drugi put mu to polazi za rukom .put mu to polazi za rukom .

Sve mi deluje kao proba za Sve mi deluje kao proba za neki, ne preterano dobar film. neki, ne preterano dobar film.

Oko 23,15 Stefan odlazi.Oko 23,15 Stefan odlazi.

  

Ja sam ostala sa gomilom Ja sam ostala sa gomilom nedoumica.nedoumica.

I am glad that Stefan has stayed in I am glad that Stefan has stayed in contact with me and that we can contact with me and that we can talk openly about everything. On talk openly about everything. On the other side what does it mean the other side what does it mean “to talk openly about “to talk openly about everythingeverything»? and how sincere »? and how sincere that communication is. that communication is.

I respected the wish of the clients to I respected the wish of the clients to hear the results together, I hear the results together, I estimated that they are support estimated that they are support for each other, I was completely for each other, I was completely sure that hey were sincere – both sure that hey were sincere – both towards each other and to me, towards each other and to me, too. But now I have a dilemma, too. But now I have a dilemma, was I deceived? And by whom? was I deceived? And by whom? Who is sincere here, and who is Who is sincere here, and who is not? not? Stefan? Boban? Stefan? Boban?

Drago mi je da je Stefan Drago mi je da je Stefan ostao sa mnom u kontaktu i ostao sa mnom u kontaktu i što možemo da pričamo što možemo da pričamo otvoreno o svemu. S druge otvoreno o svemu. S druge strane šta je to «da pričamo strane šta je to «da pričamo otvoreno o svemu»? i koliko otvoreno o svemu»? i koliko je iskrena ta komunikacija. je iskrena ta komunikacija.

Poštovala sam želju klijenata Poštovala sam želju klijenata da saznaju rezultate zajedno, da saznaju rezultate zajedno, procenila da su podrška jedan procenila da su podrška jedan drugom, bila sasvim sigurna drugom, bila sasvim sigurna da su veoma iskreni - i jedan da su veoma iskreni - i jedan prema drugom i prema meni, prema drugom i prema meni, takodje. Ali sada sam u takodje. Ali sada sam u nedoumici, da li sam nedoumici, da li sam obmanuta? I od koga? Ko je obmanuta? I od koga? Ko je ovde iskren, a ko ne? Stefan? ovde iskren, a ko ne? Stefan? Boban? Boban?

None of us in the Centre either saw None of us in the Centre either saw of heard from Boban since the of heard from Boban since the day he received the result. day he received the result.

I am sorry that Boban hasn’t called I am sorry that Boban hasn’t called not even once (Mara or me). not even once (Mara or me).

I am sorry that he treats Stefan in I am sorry that he treats Stefan in this way.this way.

However, at the same time, insteadHowever, at the same time, instead

beingbeing reinforced, my empathy for reinforced, my empathy for

Stefan started to pale. Stefan started to pale.

I don’t completely understand why.I don’t completely understand why.

Bobana u stvari niko od nas Bobana u stvari niko od nas (iz Centra) nije ni čuo ni video (iz Centra) nije ni čuo ni video od dana kada je dobio od dana kada je dobio rezultat. rezultat.

Žao mi je što se Boban Žao mi je što se Boban nijednom nije javio (ni Mari ni nijednom nije javio (ni Mari ni meni). meni).

Žao mi je što je prema Žao mi je što je prema Stefanu takav.Stefanu takav.

Ali, istovremeno, umesto da Ali, istovremeno, umesto da se učvrsi, moja empatija se učvrsi, moja empatija prema Stefanu je počela da prema Stefanu je počela da bledi. bledi.

Ne shatam u potpunosti – Ne shatam u potpunosti – zašto? zašto?